In the first 180kkm my BMW left me stranded once. The rotor had broken. After 150kkm the driveshaft failed but I still used the bike for some weeks after the vibration started.

Right now it is totally rebuild, engine is superb and the rest is pretty much HPN, without the gearbox which I never have opened.
I can't think of any other bike (maybe a XT?) wich can take so much beating and still start the second life after 180kkm, but if I find one I might buy it...

hello, Back in the early 90's Therese and I travelled on a 1978 R65 BMW from London to Australia.The bike was a basket case I picked up from another Aussie in London.It was put back together with a 2nd hand short motor as the big end was stuffed . I put on a set of Konis, new clutch and rechromed fork stantions.,a set of panniers and a Scottish lambs wool. with a carnet in hand we set off.It went well all the way home.26,000 k we did.the bikes only hicup was a rear main bearing in the gearbox went awol in Iran.( the only part I didn't look at) 2days and $25 US later I had rebuilt the gearbox with 5 new skf and timkin bearings in Isfahan .
The R80 GS that I've had for 21 years ,yes would have been a better chioce of bike, but it was at home . so the R65 And Bmw I think are very reliable.remember the R65 was a 400 UK pound bikeabout $600 Aussie at the time so you don't need to spend heaps .Oh ya I also drowned her in Pakistan ,a local paki and Alla had her going and back on the road within an hour.that another story

In my opinion, the GS is just waaaay too big and way too heavy, you dont need all that power-torque and you dont need all that carrying capacity unless you are traveling two up. and the BIG drawbacks are it is thirsty and expensive.

I would go better for a 500 to 650, single cyl, carbed, air cooled jap. I would use a Jap bike because the machanics in the third world would manage to fix them and pretty much nobody has dealt with broken down beemers.

Among the few good things the GSs are unbeatable in, are: comfort, looks and riding two up.

personally I would understand if anyone preffers a KTM Adventure, 990 or 640 to a DR650 or an XT600 or a GS since the previous are a lot more performance focused and some riders demand. but again you pay big time for that.

The caponord, multistrada or varadero are luxury sport-utes, that will certainly let you down on the first offroad situation you face, plus there are more plastic on them than there is motorcycle.

and the V-strom is just a joke, is an street bike in disguise.

Canuki.
zuk- xf650. (look for it on the net, its the streetable version of the DR).

Oh, and by the way, I live in Colombia (SA) and I have traveled all around my beautifull continent.

and the V-strom is just a joke, is an street bike in disguise
Really? So you've ridden one eh?

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Instructions previously supplied to Vincent, the initiator of this thread:

1. Locate hornets' nest
2. Locate big stick.
3. Retreat ten metres from hornets' nest.
4. Charge at hornets' nest with big stick.

That should do it.

Simon

__________________
Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

Hey Simon,
You'd be pissed off to if you paid $17,000 USD for a bike and had
it in the shop all the time!

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Here we go again... at least i have some time to discuss it.

But before we do that i'd like to ask: do you ever consider looking outside your own box and at least stop bashing the bikes you never owned personally and only backing up "third-party" stories, myths and gossips?

Well any boxer has lower centre of gravity than any other concept making it the same or even better maneuverable than the Strom exapmple, even if having more weight. Siting on a GS, shaking it on one side to another it feels much lighter than it acctually looks, the same is with handling. I.e. compare a 11xxGS with Capo Nord and you feel the v-twin Capo feels TOP heavy, altough the paper says it's not heavier.

PS: my ancient old R1100GS weights only 2 kilograms more (209kg) as the new V-Strom 1000 if i take ABS system off, catalythic converter, heated grips etc other bits to make it the same spec as V-Strom is. Add the benefit of low centre of gravity to that and add the shaft drive that weights more than a chain set.

The new R1200GS weights a huge 8kg less than a V-Strom btw, at the same time having all the gizmos installed aside the shaft drive, telelever etc.

Weight is a very relative form of word, i ment to say.


Well V-Stroms are a joke if i start backing up village gossips like some tend to do:

Too much fragile plastic for a real enduro, oil radiator placed the most worst place for serious offroad riding, high centre of gravity, alloy wheels, poor suspension, the clutch tends to blow etc

And do i have to listen all the stories saying any V-Strom is no real enduro, rather a street-bike, like nice plastic looking Honda HRV compared to a robust Landrover if you compare it with a robust GS?

That's what people and journalists say anyways. So it's true in the practice then, so it is a joke then eh?


Hmm... I always thought the BMWs are among the ugliest looking bikes on the planet, but i bought one after considering Affy Twin, Strom and Capo that all looked a way better optically. So what's wrong with me not wanting the Honda HRV type of very nice looking and well painted plastic "city-Jeep" rather than a robust Landrover Defender?

The beauty is in the looker's eyes.

Nice philosopy there. But a bit off i'm afraid... Firstly, i don't represent anybody other than myself, I just don't see logic in listening some third-guy saying about things he never experienced with his own skin. (how many times do i have to repeat that anyways? Read my "equivalent" words about V-Strom above to understand it from your perspective)

Re: the marketing videos etc. Then the only way is to start filming for Suzuki factory yourself and be a salesman, and do it much better than the Helge Pedersen, LWR etc. Where's the problem and what's so crap about it? Or you think it's not a good idea to inspire people to do something like that? We live (mostly) in a democratic world, Honda, Suzuki etc are much bigger-richer companies than the small BMW Motorrad, so why haven't they done better ads? Let me guess..., no proper bike to put on the show or they're afraid that the bike brakes down on the trip? I think they have a sheet loads more money to spend on ads if they'd really want to promote their dual sport bikes. So maybe someone more marketing knowledged person can post his/her thoughts about it here.


I think why the G(/)S was/is so successful is because it's the father of big trailies. V-Stroms, Capo Nords, Afrca Twins, 950 Adventures etc are all copycats, they come and go while the name GS has been here for more than 25 years thanks to continous innovation while preserving traditions symbiosis. So it's kind of "the knowledge lives on" case, while for example the Africa Twin didn't do any evolutionary turnpoints and was finally discounted, the same with some others. Not much big trailies have been in production more than 10 years and there's not much point to produce the same old technologies for a long time, time moves on. It's been discussed here before that the paralevers, telelevers, ABS, etc etc the bmw first used puts them into different class and it is also the reason why they are more expensive than the regular bikes. And what the people are most afraid of? It's the unknowing! That's why you see lot of innovator-bmw bashers, they see it as ugly if it differs from the rest of the mass. And it's the same reason why there are so loyal users for such bikes that are proven for them and RTWs and most of all: they like to ride it.

At least i don't see myself buying any other bike if it doesn't have low centre of gravity boxer twin engine, paralever shaft drive and telelever front. Separate engine and gearbox oil, dry clutch. Is there such big trailie? That's the bike i'd prefer according to my speciefic needs. Each of us have their own individual needs-requirements on the specs. Some prefer Enfields, some XTs, some 50cc scooters, but please let's stop knocking on what others need or should buy etc. So the GS has becomed so bloody popular, so what? Let it be and ride the (other) bike you like!


And you think the reported warranty case numbers represent the acctual reliability in equal basis?

I wouldn't be so sure about it altough i don't know much about the new generation BMWs.

The reality is much different i'm afraid aside broken bulbs etc minor ironing out issues that the picky bmw users go back to service with: according to the World's largest survey on the bike's reliablity, for you as a surprise, puts the BMW into the first place of reliability on all makes: see here.

It's the only non-jap company ahead on all japanese. Food for thought. It's on par with the Honda in the reliability level. Or you can come here and supress all the 10,000 biker's opinions who contributed with the speciefic survey?

No one tries to say it's some magical reliablity machine, that doesn't exist, but it doesn't lose any ground to others as this survey proves. There exist no perpetuum mobile concept. Human error is on any bike you buy, whether it's japanese, italian, chinese, german or what ever, they all brake down sooner or later. And if your bike brakes down in the middle of nowhere, so what? See the Grant & Susan Johnson's "The Achievable Dream" DVD for the answer! I hope it opens the eyes for those people who think the only reason to buy bikes is the (mythical) realiability.

One thing always remains - the word "reliability" itself represents a myth! On any bike and that includes the GSes! And i think especially it's a myth for those people, who expect to have mobile perpentuum in their bikes while having no mechanical knowledge themselves.

Just learn to live with the bike you really love to ride, enjoy it as an important part of your adventure travels and stop bashing-complaining others you have no experience with. And if you don't like the bike - sell it and buy a better one!

"When the Flag Drops, the Bullshit Stops"

Margus

[QUOTE=mollydog;111515]

BMW's LOOK GOOD, but don't live up to the LOOK!
They never really have.....

Margus kind of represents the tough old guard of BMW owners.

You still see some old guys like Margus,

to perpetuate the mythology that surrounds BMW.

What crap.


Really? So you've ridden one eh?

.................................................. .........
Despite Mollydogs remarks, sampled above, this is....

An excellent thread, fired by passion - this is good stuff. Threads like this are a treasure, despite the odd nasty post. Don't lose this energy because of minor irritants.

The quality end of the debate is represented by Margus, who avoids rumour, gossip and abuse, gives facts and figures, and argues with reason and logic. He is clearly not blindly loyal to any bike or manufacturer, but judges them on merit and suitability for purpose. We have benefited from his comments and how he presents them. That includes people like me who don't ride a BMW, but who certainly value the bikes that BMW produces. Who couldnt?

The shabby end is represented by Mollydog's threats to punch people and how tough he is, his "ass puppet" remarks to one who dared to disagree with him, and his argument, which seems to rely on hearsay and bias. He boasts that in a bar, he always wins. In bars which I frequent, he would end up with his sorry, battered face in the urinal. Some of his comments above give the nature of the man. It seems that if he is losing a debate, he resorts to needling others. But when he's on easy, safe ground, he's harmless, and is a very jolly read. But when required to think outside the box, he cant do it. He is unable to handle Margus's last comment about the endless BMW bashers - that it's all about the rider, not the bikes, which are simply passing consumer goods, to be changed like a pair of boots.

This is a good and energetic thread, and I hope Mollydog doesnt spoil it for others. But dont get rid of him. Unpleasant he is - troubling he is not. If you met him on the road you'd "lose" him right away. I think we are all big boys and girls and we know how to deal with the likes of him.

And it keeps him off the road!


Margus is not "old guard" - he is actually quite young. I think old Mollydog likes to provoke.

Thanks for the comments James. I was just interested really. And, I promise not to punch you out... There are as many reasons to not like a bike as to like one and human shape, size, and desires all play a part.

I didn't mean to compare any brand (Suzuki) just interested if any real data is out there. I have owned a Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, KTM, Ducati and Montessa and a number of different bikes within that. Not to mention my BMW - and found them all to be awesome in one way or another - which I think is true of most bikes - with some notable exceptions.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any hard data and make sure it gets up on the site... I might even ask my friend who owns a BMW, Yamaha, Ducati dealership if he could get me some... but I think that might mean BMW punches him out...

Either way I guess the most important thing is I am happy with my purchase and the only thing wrong with it so far is I don't get enough time on it.

Hope to see you out there,

PS Caminando - well said

Dean

Don't delete the post!

It proves that the moderators here like to open a can of worms (Vincent Danna, moderator, started this thread twice).

But it looks like post(s) have been deleted already. At least one post (between #79 and #80) is deleted and it looks a bit strange because #80 quotes from this post.

It might be smart to only delete the text in the post not the entire post. Deleting parts of a discussion without telling the readers is not nice!

Yes Dean - a very interesting post which offers good comment in opposition to bias and needling.

We are lucky to live in a time when we have so many fabulous bikes to choose from. I think it's fantastic when I think of the old bangers I started on. I refer to bikes of course.

But we're still stuck with people who bleat about "mine is better than yours"; such juvenile rubbish.