Is that a gas bbq on the back of that Guzzi or one gigantic top box???

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Dave McMillan
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/mcmillan/

I think that bike is based on this classic early Guzzi Adventure Bike.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

what options for a first rider:

KLR
F650GS Dakar
VStrom

any other suggestion? what about two up?

I must agree with most of the comments so far but what is the point in buying a bike that you are not really happy with just to get experience. I no it makes sence but it would always be in the back of your mind that you should try the 1200. I would strongly recommend that you do the BMW course in wales as you can drop the bike as often as you like (so to speak). I have been riding bike from the age of 16 but didn't pass my test until 33ish. Having had a long break from riding for any period of time I did a much the same thing. I rode off road for a few months during the Iraq war (2003) on a 250 Army Honda. A light bike but not with all the Army kit that goes with it.

The MOST important thing in all this is how you ride and only you no this. you can always do advance training/advanced riding course. You can get experience on a bigger bike. Just be safe. Think once,Think twice, Think BIKE.

Good Luck
Peter (now living and riding in the UAE)

Regards off road training I don't agree with BMW's method or philosophy at
all. I believe its all about selling GS's. This method goes directly against every proven tenent regards learning to ride dirt bikes for the last 50 years. KTM are doing a similar campaign and its all BS IMO.

Start Small is always best.

The only way to learn properly on a dirt bike and NOT get hurt is to start small. This especially true for older, more frail riders. You know, like the guys
who can actually afford to spend $17,000 on a dirt bike. (A GS)

I've been at this for a long, long time, I'm no beginner. I have flat track, moto
cross and enduro competition back ground. I also have done a LOT of teaching of both kids and adults.

I can promise you the guys who start on a XR100's or XR250's will end up being far better dirt riders, SOONER, than anyone trying to learn on a 550 lb.
street bike. And, they will be safer in the process.

The only way to progress off road is to push limits a bit and you WILL fall.
You need to fall....so you can learn HOW TO FALL properly and not get hurt.
Falling off is part of dirt riding. But getting hurt seriously does NOT have to
be part of it. Has anyone here ever had a 550 lb. GS on top of them?
I have, and a Tiger and a Vstrom as well. Not good.

I have trained kids who have gone onto professional motocross careers and
one who will be on the USA's ISDE jr. team this year to New Zealand. I wasn't the only one who worked with these kids, just one of many "mentors".

Anyway, I feel I've seen enough to actually know what a disaster trying to
learn on a big BMW is. Now if you consider dirt riding to be riding down a dirt
road, then we are in different worlds.

But if you're talking rough going, single track, deep sand, huge, deep ruts, massive rock fields, super steep up hill and down, well, to me, that's dirt riding
in my world.

One of the very best cross training activities you can do is to take up
Trials riding. The very best enduro riders in the world most all have some
Trials experience. David Knight is the current Hero. Best rider in the world
at the moment out of the UK. You guessed it, former Trials rider. Nothing
teahces principles better.

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I am not sure what the person that started this thread is looking for, but most of the people that will go around the world, won't necessarily have to go dirt riding, it's more a A to B kind of thing but in a large scale. This is my view anyway. So if the 1200gs is big capable of going off road in terms of rock climbing, that's a whole different story and probably the worst option. Do you agree?
I am still thinking about it too, i am no off road expert, i like to go out with my wife on long trips, from Brisbane to, who knows where and when we are ready, maybe take a looooooong trip. Maybe to visit my parents in Rome. Please all we need here is the right suggestions. I might end up with a F650gs, but i am worried that my wife would be a little cramped. I would like a Ktm950 too. Is that too off road for two up, and no off road maniac type of travelling? it's all in your hands Mr Patric.

Thanks,
Daniel

ride whatever feels right. that needs you to test ride bikes. it's nothing to do with the brand, or the supposed reputation (GPz305 excepted). it's also nothing to do with magazine reviews. If you're going to spend that long with something between your legs, you may as well be getting some excitement out of it!

by the way, the amount of RG2100 Adventures I now see sailing across Scotland with their riders kitted out in spanking new BMW helmet/suits/gloves/boots/socks/underwear is incredible. And very few of them seem to be bikers, if you know what I mean. the karma is all wrong...

Hey Daniel,
My off-road rant was really in response to the previous post.
And to illustrate the current trend of many new GS riders doing the BMW course and thinking they've actually got some skills by the end of one or two days. Like we saw in the very young and strong boys in Long Way Round, the course didn't exactly help them, did it?

Granted, they were probably better off doing it than doing nothing
but are far from good dirt riders. Its very hard to learn to manage a bike that
big....and, as I said, a bit dangerous IMO. On a small bike you learn the Physics very quickly and easily and gain confidence, which is key.

Doing RTW, depending how you choose to do it, may require very little
off road skills at all and in many places dirt can be avoided all together.

For you and your wife I'd go with the bigger bike, go for comfort, luggage capacity, range, speed. You won't be doing the Borneo outback but no
worries. Plenty to see.

Then work a bit on your own skills, especially in sand. Sand seems to be
the undoing of many riders on heavy bikes. There are a few tricks for sand if
you can get your mind 'round them.

In nasty conditions of short duration like bad rocks, deep ruts or water crossings, its best the missus gets off and walks it. Better only one wet rider than two, eh?

Cheers,
Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

After research and seeking advice....

Get the bike you like and 'do it'. We all learn and appreciate things in different ways.

thank you very much to all of you for keeping this thread alive and to help people like me to make the right decisions. I have not the same experience you have and i am always interested in finding things from more experienced riders. One thing i have noticed, like in advrider.com is that not many people of my age are interested in long distance travelling. i am 30 years young, any one else of that age?

Thanks,
Daniel

My first bike was a CT90, and I still remember it took some getting used to the strange steering dynamics of the bike on the steep hairpins near my house (with cars all around). My second was a T200 and then a CB400 - which felt like a huge bike at the time. Over the next 10 or so years I got bigger bikes and now 25 years later I'm comfortable on anything.

It doesn't really matter what "feels" right, it's learning and experience. Most youngsters start on small under-powered bikes because that's all they can afford. If they've got more money they buy rocketships and kill/hurt themselves. In hindsight I'm glad I didn't have the money at the time to buy the bikes I would've liked. As you get older you have more income and are more inclined to want to jump straight in at the top end.

You're going to be riding for decades to come why not take a few years to get really familiar with how a bike works; how cars do/don't see you on the road; riding in different conditions; etc. I think a 650 is too big to start with - better to get really proficient and comfortable on a 250 (we are talking about riding on the road here, not in the bush on the beat-up 500). So what if you trade up in a year or two, at least you'll be alive and well and able to properly manage a bike. In my view this is really not something to hurry.

cheers
Brett

but when you ask people about two up, they all go: " you need a bigger bike" i have no idea. all i was riding in the past was an old 1969 Vespa 150, before then was my cousins motorcycle in Spain, that's what they used to ride in summer. i would like to do some touring, whatever takes me and my wife from A to B in comfort will do. there are to many forums and after all, i've come to the conclusions, you do what you want to do, a Postie Bike (CT110) or a HD, maybe a John Deere lawn mower too, someone really did it.

Take care and let's see if this thread keeps going,
Ciao,
Daniele

ps: i think the best looking is the KTM. The most comfortable the BMW and the best in price the Tiger and VStrom.

Max66, just had to say that - as a new rider, the fact that you went to a riding community board to inquire about the kind of bike you should get shows admirable forethought. I'm sure that if you show equal dilligence as you gain riding experience your skills will be considerable and your enjoyment and safety equally so. Riders of all experience can certainly take a lesson from you.

Mollydog... I practically blew cofee through my nose at your picture of the early Guzzi adventure bike. I've gotta do my next enduro on one of those!

Yea, that three wheeler is for real. Guzzi made these things intially under a
military contract in the late 50's I believe, then sold them as some kind
of tractor for farmers. This is a lousy pic, you can't really see the engine.
I've actually seen them in the flesh at bike shows, along with the old Bacon Slicer singles, Guzzi V-8, V-7 Sport (first Guzzi two wheeler to use the V motor) and other Guzzi classics.

Many Italians feel very strongly about Moto Guzzi. Moreso than any
other Italian brand. Not sure why this is but its kind of like their Harley....they
get real teary eyed and nostalgic when Guzzi comes up. Serious. A wealthy plastic surgeon friend collects Alpha Romeo's....and Moto Guzzi's. (he's Italian).

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Just spent the last half an hour reading this entire thread and the various points that were made in it. As I have just joined the forum I dont want to annoy anyone (yet!) but I feel like I have to put my little bit in as well!

I started riding when I was 23 as I was supposed to be getting a bike for courier work in Edinburgh. As it happened I stayed on four wheels as it was the winter!

I moved out to Dubai a few years later and there was very little choice in the bike market. My first bike was decided by what was in the showroom at the time, so I bought a new Triumph Daytona T595. Now this goes against all the comments I have just read about starting small, but I had the money and there was a good group of riders who met every weekend for breakfast runs.

I never had an issue starting with a 1000cc bike and I learnt very quickly what the bike could do, and what I could not! I kept the bike for about four years and travelled around 20,000miles in the UAE and the UK. In that time I had a number of scares that would have happened on any size bike (usually caused by cars/trucks/camels etc)

I did have one big 'off' which I still cant remember much about but it never diminished my love for two wheel travel. When I returned to the UK in 2002 the first thing I bought was another Daytona and proceeded to tour Europe on it and use it everyday for commuting until I blew the engine on it!

I am back in the UAE now and looking for something to entertain me. We are lucky here as the bike culture has grown and there is an FIA track less than 15 minutes from office which has track days a couple of times a month. I would go for another 1000cc as I have a mental block about going smaller but the current 600's are looking very attractive, especially for the track!

So I dont believe that going for a bigger bike is to waste to your time. You will learn on it as you will learn on something smaller. You may also avoid the trouble of arriving at a corner on your new 1000 a hell of a lot faster than you did on your old 600, panic braking and making a lovely hole in the hedge/wall/car the same shape as you and the bike.

Its depends greatly on the rider and the way they approach the bike and their riding. Any bike can be a handful. Buy what you feel comfortable on, but make sure you get your riding kit sorted first.

There are two types of riders. Those that have crashed and learnt, and those that are learning to crash.

Cheers