I'm not sure why the dealer in cork told you the control unit would come programmed, i have been working for bmw for 4 years and the only way to programme a control unit to your bike is to have the bike actually there to do it. When you programme control units the diagnosic machine 'stamps' your vin into it aswell as your vehicle order (all relevant optional extras that your bike has fitted) all of this info is taken off of your bike at the time of programming and put onto the new control unit. You cannot put a used control unit onto any other bike for these reasons as it will cause conflicts within the bike so if you want to sell it privately the only person you can actually sell it to is the owner of the bike that the control unit is programmed to. BMW will not give you a refund for any control unit you order. If you would have let the dealer that was doing the diagnostics on the bike order the control unit and they misdiagnosed then the cost would be with them but as you went ahead and ordered it yourself, although they told you that was the problem, personally i think the cost should lie with you.
Admittedly the delaer should have diagnosed the problem correctly the first time but a broken wire can be sometimes hard to find, if it is literally just split then it could easily just sit together giving the appearance of a connected wire and any elemants could break the circuit like heating the bike up could adapt the loom just enough to break the circuit or turning the handlebars to on side.
OBD2 is not used on bikes. BMW use their own diagnosis bus which connects to thier and after market diagnosis systems. The system is far from perfect and does throw out the occasional control unit failed diagnosis, and it is far from just plugging it in and it will tell you what is wong with the bike, you actually have to do all measurements manually with a multimeter and then enter them onto the system for it to decide what is wrong. All it does is give you a guided diagnosis, a step by step guide of what wires could be the cause of the issue.
The can bus system contains only 2 wires, a signal and a confirmation, which basically allow the control units to recieve signals for switches, lights, sensors etc without having to run signal wires to each control unit that needs that signal e.g the wheel speed signal is sent to the abs unit only then the instrument cluster gets the speed signal from the abs unit though the can bus lines. It is actually very simple when you break it down.

Just as a final note, although you have found the problem now, i would have said that your problem was the wiring. Your bike is too late a model to be fitted with the faulty ews ariels, which all were replaced under recall anyway. Im guessing that the break probably would have been around your headstock, either at the bend in the wire or where it is cable tied to the frame, i have not had one break that hasnt been in either of those positions.

This makes much more sense than the concept in the OP of pre-programming an electronic component remotely.
e.g. once an external hard disc is attached to, say, a digital television (and formatted for recording purposes) then that drive cannot be used subsequently in, say, a computer.

On the basis that the new unit has never been fitted to the sickly bike - never been out of the packaging apparently - then the Irish supplier may be in a position to take it back into their stock OR the Peruvian dealer could "make an offer" for it (if I was inclined toward conspiracy theories, I might think that they wanted to snag one when the sick bike turned up at their premises - but I don't do conspiracy theories).

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Dave

I get the impression from the OP that the Cork dealer would only supply the control unit on the understanding that it was non-refundable. Whether or not he did any programming is only important if the current owner wants to try and sell it privately.

The way in which it broke down is also an important factor in determining what has actually caused the bike to stop (or not start in this case). If it was as the OP said one minute the bike was working 100%, he then stopped and a few minutes later tried to start the bike and it was completely dead then he was probably right to think that it was an electronic failure. In my experience broken wires initially cause intermittent faults leading eventually to complete failure but the problem with electronic failures is that they can just occur for no good reason (although heat is usually the cause).

If this sort of fault occurred on my low tech bike I would have tried 'hotwiring' the starter motor and ignition circuits depending on the exact symptoms. I'm not sure how much the CANBUS technology affects things but, for example, if the starter isn't turning I would disconnect the existing wiring and jump it directly from the battery - if it turns then it points the finger at the switch and numerous interlocks (neutral switch, sidestand switch etc.). OK I realise I'm probably over simplifying things as I have very little experience of such complex machines but it's interesting to note that technology hasn't overcome the problem of fatigue breaks in the wiring loom at the headstock! I would have thought that some sort of wireless connection could be used.

CANBUS has been around for nearly 30 years with 4 wheelers and it is here to stay:-
What is CAN Bus?
According to that website --
1. One advantage is the reduction in the amount of wiring used in the loom - for the BMW car it saved 50 Kg of weight.
2. Vehicle construction regulations standardise on the implementation of CANBUS technology; I have come across this theme in other discussion, whereby the diagnostic tools are supposed to be interchangeable.

Wiki explains a lot more about how signals are transmitted via the CANBUS, but the old ways of diagnosing faults have to be modified to take into account that information flows as signals/impulses and not as a constant flow of current

"I get the impression from the OP that the Cork dealer would only supply the control unit on the understanding that it was non-refundable. Whether or not he did any programming is only important if the current owner wants to try and sell it privately."
In part, this is why I mentioned that becoming involved in the garage internal procedures for procurement of spare parts is not a great idea, even if the customer considers that they are under time pressures; further, doing it via a personal friend/acquaintance simply complicates the relationship aspects.

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Dave

I think you also have to be realistic / fatalistic about any BMW Motorrad facilities outside of the developed world.

Many of them do not have up to date diagnostic kit.

Once I spoke to the official dealer / importer in Kazakhstan who said their diagnostic kit cant help with anything more recent than 1999.

Generally speaking, the sales of BMW motorcycles outside the western world is tiny (in contrast, sales of BMW cars in Peru or Mongolia or wherever, is actually significant). Dealers are often the local car importing franchise of BMW who has been compelled by Munich to have a token Motorrad sales and service facility too, as a condition of getting the BMW Car franchise for that country. In reality, their interest in selling or servicing the motorcycles is near zero. Their investment in equipment and staff training is also near zero. Again using Kazakhstan as an example, there are NO BMW owners in Kazakhstan that I know that go to the dealer for service. All say they are useless, and get the bikes serviced by local passionate motorcycle mechanics. The dealer there exists only to import and sell new bikes. Beyond that, they have no real function.

The local importers and dealers are only interested in the BMW car business. Thats where the money is.

Expecting the motorrad section to be any use at all, to have top draw bike mechanics, to have up to date diagnostic equipment or even carry any spare parts in stock is totally not realistic.

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You buy a voltage meter (presumably dash mounted) off a random bloke, and throw a battery away without double checking it with another meter from a local mechanic?

Oops.

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https://fernsforays.wordpress.com/

The latest diagnosis machine, MOSS, Costs over £4000 to dealers and has to be connected to germany through the internet to use it, it's easy to see why far away dealers will not fork out for the latest equipment if they rarely see any need for it

Whilst we are busy slating BMW R1200GS does anybody know the story behind this photo I have just seen on Facebook and what did this chap's dealer say to him?

It used to be that if you had a motorcycle franchise you were contractually obligated to buy all the service material and get staff trained up (at your expense) on each new model. BMW insisting that you take on a bike franchise in order to get the car franchise is just another indication of their declining comittment to customer service.


At least he won't need a diagnostic machine to work out what's wrong with it!

have only ever seen one other like that.
Could have been a number of things, the drive shaft could have previously broken and damaged the inside of the swingarm, he could have previously had an rear end accident.

Hi Guys,

I guess this is why I stuck this on this forum in the first place, to see what your thoughts are.

I am only writing this letter to BMW because all of my attempts to contact BMW in Lima have failed. They have been ignoring me for over a year.

When this happened originally I reckoned it was a wiring issue. I got onto Max BMW in the US and BMW in Bogota Colombia along with BMW in Cork Ireland. They all reckoned it was a wiring issue as well. I relayed this to the tech in Lima and he checked the wiring again. Yes they did use the Canbus system, I watched them do it. Having never seen this work before it was all new to me but it did not look like they knew what they were doing. They had no system and seemed to be checking things randomly skipping back and forth over the wiring system. Its obvious now that they skipped over the broken part.

I asked them to check it again but they refused. They said it was NOT a wiring issue and it HAD to be the BMSKP unit. There was nothing else it could be. Having been stuck in Lima for a week already I asked them to just fix it. I was then told that it would take at least 6 weeks to get a new part. That is why I got the part myself. I asked again and again if this part was necessary because of the expense and I was told yes, to go ahead and get it if I can. Peru has some weird importation laws so maybe this is why I was able to get it faster myself.

While I was in Machu Picchu they swapped the wiring harness between two bikes and found the problem. This happened because another BMW garage advised them to do this.

So who should I hold responsible? The bike manufacturer with their faulty wiring or the Garage with their faulty diagnosis. This part costs nothing for BMW to manufacture. I don't even care about the money any more. I just want people to know what will happen if they have such a mishap on the road in a foreign country.

Don't get me wrong, I really like these bikes even with all their electronic components. I'm on my third one now and I have ridden them all over the world. I have had plenty of other issues with these bikes while travelling internationally all of which I paid for myself even though these bikes were under warrantee because the warranty only covers the bike in its home country.

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Ride on
Kev

I feel like I must be missing something. What I'm gathering (correct me if I'm wrong about all or part):

You had an out-of-warranty bike, 2+ years old, unknown mileage, with a faulty bit of wiring. You got shitty advice from a shitty mechanic--maybe from several shitty mechanics. You spent a lot of money and a fair amount of time pointlessly as a consequence of following that advice. This was a year ago. You wish you had chosen a better mechanic in the first place, particularly since there seemed to have been one nearby.

What do you expect BMW to do? Compensate you for spending an unconscionable amount of money trying to expedite an unnecessary repair? Compensate you for trusting the word of a manifestly inept mechanic wearing, I assume, a BMW jumpsuit? Seriously?

Maybe I'm way off base but I sure don't expect that sort of backup on my (Japanese) bikes when on distant continents. Is this sort of expectation widely held by BMW owners? Are they often disappointed?

I've had some peevish interactions with Kawasaki--both local dealers and the North American office--during my 7 years of KLR use. But I don't keep fighting un-winnable fights. If it's been over a year, you need to make your peace with the whole thing for your own sake. You say the money doesn't matter any more, which is probably good--amortized over the cost of buying and running several bikes on various continents, it's not that big a deal in the end.

I'm curious, though: are modern BMW's much more complex, more reliant on electronics, or more difficult to diagnose without fancy equipment than modern Japanese, Austrian, British or American bikes? I'm not asking whether they break down more often: I'm curious about the consequences when they do. If they really are much more difficult to diagnose and repair, your warning "I just want people to know what will happen if they have such a mishap on the road in a foreign country..." makes sense. If not, I'll remain dubious.

Mark

That is an assumption. And you could be very wrong. I'd suggest Mark you take a more moderate view of people you don't know nor circumstances that you also don't know. We only have one side, and that is shortened to fit the space, and filtered by time (memory).

The problem may well be that a person who trained for mechanical things is now faced with a complex electronic system. While they have sophisticated expensive tools to help, their aptitude may be more in line with gears, pistons and bearings not CPUs, MOSFETs and SCRs... They may be very good with the mechanical .. but less so with the electronics. So the employer keeps them on due to their excellence with mechanicals. And the have no one else better at the electronics. OR the 'urgency' of the requested repair ends up with the only person not doing something 'important'.

They are more complex than a basic primitive EFI system (like the old BMW K bikes). Or even the old F650. They do do more, what do you expect with the added complexity?

There are a number of reasons why I'd not have one of the newer large bm 'adventure' bikes - size, weight, cost, ease of repair are a few of 'em. Similar reasons can be used to exclude other bikes from various manufactures.

Sounds like good advice for me. Thanks. I was merely trying to represent the OP's position, but failed to make that clear. I guess in doing so, I also failed to make my main point, which was about owner's expectations of mechanics and their abilities--and whether they expect manufacturers to make good on perceived shortcomings.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I hope I'm not being out of line by expecting that a manufacturer can and will maintain their product. Are we simply expected to throw away something because parts of it are broken. If my car or bike breaks I certainly expect the manufacturer to be able to fix the problem. The manufacturer is represented by their franchise holders, in this case BMW lima.

I did indeed get shitty advice but only from BMW lima. Every other mechanic I asked said it was a wiring issue. I relayed this info to BMW lima but they choose to ignore it. They only checked it again when they were told to do so by another BMW garage. If they had not diagnosed the problem that time I would have had to collect the BMSKP unit from customs and pay another 60% import fee on it just to find out that was not the problem either. The whole situation could be a hell of a lot worse believe me.

"What do you expect BMW to do? Compensate you for spending an unconscionable amount of money trying to expedite an unnecessary repair? Compensate you for trusting the word of a manifestly inept mechanic wearing, I assume, a BMW jumpsuit? Seriously?

What would you expect? I would certainly like to know if one of my franchises was not living up to my good name. If they couldn't diagnose the problem and fix it in my opinion "BMW" should be removed from above the door.They should not have inept mechanics working there in the first place. As Warin said "The problem may well be that a person who trained for mechanical things is now faced with a complex electronic system". This is very true. The mechanic was a very nice guy but he was the only one there. The garage was real busy because the Dakar rally was in town. I don't think it was his fault as he was being rushed from job to job but they diagnosed the problem wrongly at great expense to myself. If I was riding a KLR I wouldn't expect Kawasaki to do anything about it but it's not a KLR its a BMW and they go on and on about their after sales service like we are privileged to get it.


I don't expect anything from BMW, the fact that they have never bothered to answer any of my emails is proof that they don't care. I just want to let people know what to expect.

Excuse me if I'm wrong.

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Ride on
Kev