12GSA, 650 Dakar, AT/TA & Other options to research?

[sockpuppet]

Hi guys, the usual question being asked here.

I'm currently looking at my bike options for a rtw trip that I plan to start early 2010. Rough plan is to do a shakedown trip round the scandanavia half way through this year and leave 6 months later (give or take).

The one problem I am struggling with is that I also want to use the bike to commute for the year preceding the trip. I don't have room for 2 bikes (one parking space & a car to find a home for in inner city).

As I'm self employed I have to commute to differnt work places and for the past 3 years I've commuted an average of 180-200 miles a day (by car) - I work all over so moving closer isn't an option but I reckon a bike would save 1 hour a day just in filtering (this is not town driving either - slow moving motorway)

So I've narrowed my options.

1200GSA - Yes its big, heavy, expensive. But as a ride it was excellent. Ok there are questions over the reliability but from what I've read these are mostly easy fixes (FPC - similar to carrying a spare pump for the AT or flat battery) or faults that develop over time (final drive) with the being fairly easy to replace.

F650 GS Dakar - Nice, but not sure I could do 200 miles on it every day. Fuel range of 220 miles means a trip to the petrol station every day which could become a pain and mean I had to dip into the reserve everyday. Tourtech fuel tank is expensive and with a devent low mileage model of £4k so £1.5k for the tank the bike is not that cheap.

AT (750) or TransAlp - Almost as heavy as the R1200GSA. Seems to be more reliable but smaller tank.


So does anyone have any experiance of the bikes above. I've had lots of people tell me the GS bikes are awful and that I'd be a nutter to attempt it becuase they're far too electronic. But similarly I've heard lots of people say they've done a rtw on a 1150/1200gsa but no-one has yet said they tried one on it and the electornics tried to kill them in thier sleep.

But am I missing any other solid options - that can commute (uk weather) and be a viable option for overland travel. I don't have space for two bikes and would like to bond with it before I go so a bike that can commute and perform rtw both would be nice. I know that's a big ask and if too much I'll have to reconsider - but its worth asking. Now I know I'm asking for a compromise. A DR650 style carb thumper would probably be the best bet when doing an rtw tour (particularly for Africa) - but I'd suffer on the sections where the complex bikes aren't disadvanteaged (eg. Europe, N. America, (S. America to an extent?), Australia etc).

As for me: I'll be travelling one up solo most of the time - so probably won't go too far "off piste" even if I had a bike that I could do that mainly becuase even bikes which never break and can be mended by a twig and a stone by a caveman could break and be US. I'm also 6'4", 19 stone lump so weight of a bike is important but I'm not a 5'3" twig.
I suppose its down to what I want to spend/I'm happy with having seen the videos about R1 Enduro I'm convinced anything can do it.

[mollydog]

Given your a big guy
Good luck in your prep!

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by sockpuppet

But similarly I've heard lots of people say they've done a rtw on a 1150/1200gsa but no-one has yet said they tried one on it and the electornics tried to kill them in thier sleep.

It’s a valid point; the “nightmares” comes mostly from people who have never done a decent trip with the mentioned bikes.

Personally I had chosen the 1200GS because I like boxers but the 650 will also do the job.
There will be a new G650GS (basically the old F650GS but with a Kymco-engine) in a short time but only in a few countries.

[sockpuppet]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

It’s a valid point; the “nightmares” comes mostly from people who have never done a decent trip with the mentioned bikes.

Personally I had chosen the 1200GS because I like boxers but the 650 will also do the job.
There will be a new G650GS (basically the old F650GS but with a Kymco-engine) in a short time but only in a few countries.

Cant remember who it is but somone on UKGSer has the quote "there are people who have ridden the GS and think its great and those that haven't and know its c**p".

I'm not sure all of the issues with the R1200GS/A is entirely justified. There is over 100,000 of them in circulation I suppose there is going to be more claims.

Originally Posted by mollydog

Given your a big guy there are certain bikes that will suit you better than others. The GS is not a bad choice but for BMW's very sketchy reliability history in the last ten years.

But do your own research .... go to BMW owner boards and hang back and read .... there you will see a pattern, a pattern of breakdowns. And if you think a failed final drive, failed clutch or locked up transmission is an "easy fix" then you have a bit to learn!

Once you've done your shake down ride you will learn more of what works for you and what does not. A commuter can be a travel bike but as you've said, you will be compromising both to reach a middle ground.

I would look closely at the Suzuki Vstrom. Good value, superb reliability, great big man's bike, easy to service, tough as nails. I would go with the DL1000, but they also make a 650. Supremely versatile machine.

Thanks for that. The DL1000K8 is also on the list - still got plenty of reading to do on this one though.

Suppose it might just come down to a F650 with some jerry cans (when rtw not commuting) due to the extra fuel economy.

[mollydog]

Yea, I guess all those thousands of posts detailing BMW failures are all BS made up by guys who "pretend" to own a GS but really don't

[AliBaba]

Thanks for proving my point Mollydog.

[pecha72]

One vote for the Vstrom, and in fact the 650-version, we rode two-up from Finland to Australia with one, and it never missed a beat. That engine is stellar for ´only 650´, and fuel range is good. Can run on practically any fuel, has excellent headlights, and room for two. The thing carries huge weight without a problem.

I´d choose it any day over Transalp and Africa Twin, which I both owned back in time, and they´re both fine, but the DL650 is just more modern in many ways. Punchier, handles better, carries weight better, uses less fuel, goes further without refuel. Even if it doesnt look like a "proper" adventure machine, not without farkling anyway, it most certainly is suitable for RTW.

[josephau]

Originally Posted by sockpuppet

Hi guys, the usual question being asked here.

I'm currently looking at my bike options for a rtw trip that I plan to start early 2010. Rough plan is to do a shakedown trip round the scandanavia half way through this year and leave 6 months later (give or take).

The one problem I am struggling with is that I also want to use the bike to commute for the year preceding the trip. I don't have room for 2 bikes (one parking space & a car to find a home for in inner city).

As I'm self employed I have to commute to differnt work places and for the past 3 years I've commuted an average of 180-200 miles a day (by car) - I work all over so moving closer isn't an option but I reckon a bike would save 1 hour a day just in filtering (this is not town driving either - slow moving motorway)

So I've narrowed my options.

1200GSA - Yes its big, heavy, expensive. But as a ride it was excellent. Ok there are questions over the reliability but from what I've read these are mostly easy fixes (FPC - similar to carrying a spare pump for the AT or flat battery) or faults that develop over time (final drive) with the being fairly easy to replace.

F650 GS Dakar - Nice, but not sure I could do 200 miles on it every day. Fuel range of 220 miles means a trip to the petrol station every day which could become a pain and mean I had to dip into the reserve everyday. Tourtech fuel tank is expensive and with a devent low mileage model of £4k so £1.5k for the tank the bike is not that cheap.

AT (750) or TransAlp - Almost as heavy as the R1200GSA. Seems to be more reliable but smaller tank.


So does anyone have any experiance of the bikes above. I've had lots of people tell me the GS bikes are awful and that I'd be a nutter to attempt it becuase they're far too electronic. But similarly I've heard lots of people say they've done a rtw on a 1150/1200gsa but no-one has yet said they tried one on it and the electornics tried to kill them in thier sleep.

But am I missing any other solid options - that can commute (uk weather) and be a viable option for overland travel. I don't have space for two bikes and would like to bond with it before I go so a bike that can commute and perform rtw both would be nice. I know that's a big ask and if too much I'll have to reconsider - but its worth asking. Now I know I'm asking for a compromise. A DR650 style carb thumper would probably be the best bet when doing an rtw tour (particularly for Africa) - but I'd suffer on the sections where the complex bikes aren't disadvanteaged (eg. Europe, N. America, (S. America to an extent?), Australia etc).

As for me: I'll be travelling one up solo most of the time - so probably won't go too far "off piste" even if I had a bike that I could do that mainly becuase even bikes which never break and can be mended by a twig and a stone by a caveman could break and be US. I'm also 6'4", 19 stone lump so weight of a bike is important but I'm not a 5'3" twig.
I suppose its down to what I want to spend/I'm happy with having seen the videos about R1 Enduro I'm convinced anything can do it.

Don't mind me being direct, but you sound like you are more looking for a compelling reason for not getting the 12GSA, because you've already made up your mind on it.

[Dodger]

Your profile suggests that you already own a 1200GS ,so mebbe you've already made up your mind .

[pecha72]

By the way, can you get your bike fully insured for a RTW-trip - so that you´ll get compensation, even if it´s crashed beyond repair, stolen, burns, or sinks to the sea?

I couldnt. So I just had to take the risk. I´ll much rather take the risk of losing a bike completely, if its not so expensive.

A 1200GS in my country costs over twice as much as the DL650. Probably doesnt mean much to you, if you´re a Hollywood star, but for the rest of us, it probably means something.

Met a couple of Aussie bikers along the way, they were riding two old Transalps bought in the UK, each one cost less than 1000 pounds... so even if the bikes werent top notch, their financial risk was still much less than ours.

Just one more thing to consider, before you set off. Not saying it´s 100% impossible to insure for a trip like this, but that in itself may cost more than a bit.

[Samy]

I would go for V-Strom !

[ozhanu]

i have a dl650 and i love my bike. I strongly advice you to consider about dl650 more seriously.

best of luck

[pecha72]

A bunch of Finnish riders just finished a guided tour from Alaska to Ushuaia (its here:
PanAmerica - PeterPanBike
...but unfortunately the whole blog is in Finnish only)

They had a total of 12 people on 11 bikes, and out of those, 5 were BMW´s (3 F800GS, one F650GS twin, and one 1150GS), and 6 were Hondas (two Transalp 700´s & one 650, two Deauville´s and one CBF1000 (ridden 2-up!!))

It seems that the new 650/800 GS´s need to fix a few ´1st model-issues´, because practically every one of them started to leak coolant from some hose, which didnt hold in place. A few of them also started oozing oil from between the cylinder head cover, including the group leader, who wrote "I now have my one leg soaked in oil, the other in glycole..." Luckily, none of those leaks lead to any bigger worries, because they had trouble getting spare parts for such new models at all during the trip. The onboard computers of the new GS´s also kept going berserk, and gave, for example, some false oil pressure warnings (probably scare you a bit, if you´re in the middle of nowhere!)

The 1150GS once had its subframe snap into two, which was welded back together. And its fuel pump also died in Chile, so after that the bike+rider travelled by truck almost 2000 kms to Santiago, where the replacement luckily had arrived by DHL from Europe in just 2 days (I believe that wasnt cheap!) They were on a tight schedule to begin with, a bit more than 2 months off work to complete the whole trip, and at that time, any more waiting would´ve meant, that this guy would have had to abandon the trip before making it to Ushuaia.

And what about those ´other´ bikes, then? Not 100% sure, if I´ve read every sentence posted there, or if I´ve missed something (2 other riders in this group also kept their own blogs), but generally speaking, they only ever seemed to make any unscheduled stops on the road, when having a flat tyre, or run out of fuel. One of the Transalps run poorly on the last day, when taking the bikes to be freighted back home, but that was it. Other than that, no technical worries whatsoever.

Other than the fuel pump, which probably could´ve happened to any of the bikes, there were no major issues (though I must say, I wouldnt like at all to have a subframe crack, while riding!) and everyone made it to the finish, which is excellent. But inside the group, there seemed to be a growing consensus, about what to choose for an unsupported long trip like this.

They all rode over 28.000 kms, and did the same route together, at the same time, so that makes it pretty comparable. I dont think even the factories have the resources to test their equipment in this scale, or as realistically, and compared to one another.

Me, I wouldnt take any new model (like the 650 twin or 800GS) on a trip like this, no matter what the manufacturer, so I think they were taking a big risk to begin with (they should have though about that problem in getting spares, too). Lucky there didnt turn out to be any real major worries with these, only minor ones... but of course, leaking oil, or water, can lead to a major catastrophe, if not properly taken care of. That would usually be partly a user error, too.

Do note, that I´ve nothing against any manufacturer, and dont want to start any bashing of any make. Just posting here, what I read, and I know some of the members in this group personally, including the group leader, so I dont think they just made everything up.

It is kind of shocking, even if Im willing to believe up to a point, that the Jap bike riders were just lucky. They must´ve been, for they rode some 168 thousand kilometres combined - practically without a glitch.

[sockpuppet]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Originally Posted by josephau

Don't mind me being direct, but you sound like you are more looking for a compelling reason for not getting the 12GSA, because you've already made up your mind on it.

Correct. The 12000GSA is a joy to ride. I did nearly 200 miles on the test ride in a day and didn't want to stop. I spend ~4 hours a day commuting/visiting customers so to commute on something I have to like it otherwise it'll become a chore like driving the car.

But I have 2 sets of different requirements here. I need to work for the next year and therefore commute but also start to prepare a bike for a big trip. It'll be hard to keep 2 bikes + 1 car in the underground parking I'm forced to use where I live (building management are v. strict) so I was trying to find something that I could commute on as well as rtw on.

If I was to choose a rtw bike today it'd be a F650 Dakar, though due to small tank and no fairing wouldn't be my choice for commuting.

The 12GSA is the opposite. The AT may just be the right balance but I was trying to get some other alternatives

Originally Posted by Dodger

Your profile suggests that you already own a 1200GS ,so mebbe you've already made up your mind .

I do. Whether or not I'd want to take it RTW is another point.

Originally Posted by pecha72

By the way, can you get your bike fully insured for a RTW-trip - so that you´ll get compensation, even if it´s crashed beyond repair, stolen, burns, or sinks to the sea?

I couldnt. So I just had to take the risk. I´ll much rather take the risk of losing a bike completely, if its not so expensive.

A 1200GS in my country costs over twice as much as the DL650. Probably doesnt mean much to you, if you´re a Hollywood star, but for the rest of us, it probably means something.

Met a couple of Aussie bikers along the way, they were riding two old Transalps bought in the UK, each one cost less than 1000 pounds... so even if the bikes werent top notch, their financial risk was still much less than ours.

Just one more thing to consider, before you set off. Not saying it´s 100% impossible to insure for a trip like this, but that in itself may cost more than a bit.

Which is the way I'm looking now. Not an amount of money that I'd want to lose.

Cheers again for the replies guys.

[Dodger]

Sounds like you are on track to selling that 1200GS and getting a cheaper bike .
If you don't have a loan on the 1200 you will be able to divert some of that money to the trip .
If you don't have much mechanical savvy then make sure you buy a bike with a good reliablity record and new or nearly new .
If you go with Fuel Injection you won't have to worry about carb settings ,not that it's a big deal .

A middle weight bike like a Bandit, 650Strom or similar will be economical and get you around well enough .
If you are not offroading you won't need an "adventure style " machine.
There I've said it , --you don't love that 1200 enough to want to drag it around the world .

Another alternative would be to rent a lock up and prep a DR650 .
Or move to somewhere with a decent garage .