Why am I considering a F650GS twin?
I started biking again less than four years ago after a gap of 28 years. Since then I've covered almost 100,000 miles, much of which has been outside the UK. I've now done something like 3,000 miles of piste riding in North Africa. Much of this is solo, exploring areas that are unknown to me, and I tend to combine touring and offroad in the same trip.

Whilst it's brilliant as an intercontinental ballistic missile, the R1200GSA is somewhat big and heavy on unknown pistes so I bought a Honda XR400R to experiment. This was great fun and inspired me to greater things on the 1200GSA, but there were a number of drawbacks--the weak rear subframe means no pillion possibility and poor luggage capacity, the fuel range was extremely poor, the seat was relatively high and uncomfortable and there wasn't an electric start. Whilst it's a gutsy bike it was obviously not happy with travelling at speed on tarmac 'liaison' sections.

I considered the G650 Xchallenge and booked one of these for a day in the Brecon Beacons. It is much better than the XR400 at higher speeds and can take luggage, but the fuel tank is far too small for my mixed tour/trail purposes and it still has a high and uncomfortable seat. I looked at buying an XT660 and indeed the new Ténére looks like it be a good compromise road/piste bike, but with a single cylinder and lower power it wouldn't be that good on motorways.

The new F650GS seems to tick all the boxes for me. Good luggage capability, reasonable fuel range, lowish comfortable seat and electric start. With 70+bhp and two cylinders it would be fine for motorway blasts, and the pricing is extremely keen against the Ténére and other alternatives.

But why the F650GS rather than the F800GS?
For a start it's £1200 cheaper! If this was a replacement for the 1200GSA I would start off looking at the F800GS, but this will probably be a second bike. I have yet to ride the F800GS so my mind isn't irrevocably made up but I don't particularly value those items that differentiate the F800.
- yes the 800 screen is bigger, but probably not high enough.
- yes the 800 has a bash plate, but it's plastic and not big enough
- yes the 800 has twin rotors (discs) at the front but single should be OK
- don't understand/wouldn't appreciate USD forks
- don't value the different handlebars

I prefer the tubeless tyres on the F650 as they can be plugged without having to take the wheel off and mend the tube, they are also safer in case of a blow-out. I'm not fased by the idea of cast wheels, my 12GS had cast wheels and was fine.

The other two points are ride height where the 800 has better ground clearance (but higher seat), and the cosmetic looks where having an 800 sticker rather than a 650 means you have hairier balls, and female riders gain a moustache.

So, on to the ride. What did I think of it?
First impressions. I can get both feet absolutely flat on the floor with the standard seat. The engine is very smooth and quiet. The clutch is light, the gearbox smooth and the fueling is spot on--it's very easy to control at low speed either offroad or in heavy traffic. The engine pulls well from low revs with no obvious power step. It's a well-behaved bike for less experienced riders.

My hands were cold as handguards aren't standard on either the 650 or 800GS. The screen is low--especially on the 650--and I was feeling the wind blast, but then I looked down and realised I was doing 75 mph. Woops (and 4000 revs is 70 mph). If you keep to 60-65 mph the standard screen is fine, but for motorways a higher screen is needed. The screen from the F800GS is higher, alternatively TT sells both higher screens and clip-on screen spoilers.

I briefly took the bike up to 100mph and whilst there wasn't as much power as the 1200GS, it didn't seem that far off. It easily pulls from 35mph in top. There's less 'character' to the engine but it's very enjoyable. The switchgear is traditional BMW. The brake reservoir in on a flexible mount and tends to wave around in the rider's face in a distracting way.

I did about a mile offroad on some deeply rutted tracks and fields. At one time I stalled the engine going uphill in second, probably due to the engine not having quite the pull of the 1200, but otherwise I felt very confident. After seeing the amount of damage caused to non-boxer (Xchallenge) bikes at the Welsh offroad school I am concerned, however, whether the optional crash bars are enough to protect the plastics of the 'tank' area. On the positive side the handlebars were good and I wouldn't need risers.

The front brake is a single disc, as opposed to twin rotors on the F800. Someone on UKGSer suggested the bike would pull to one side, so I tried high-speed halts. Despite activating ABS there was no side pull. I guess the point of the twin rotors is to minimise heat-induced fade in places like the Alps.

The major surprise was fuel consumption. Travelling at 65-70 mph I would normally get 52-55 mpg on the 1200GSA; with the F650GS I got 71 mpg!

I haven't made up my mind whether to get the bike or not. I need to do a back-to-back next week with the 800GS to see what I would be missing by going for the 800's 'little sister'.

Tim

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Hi Tim,

Excellent write up, it got me thinking again.

Maybe I'm a little confused or BMW have a problem with numbers, but is the F650GS actually using the same engine as the 800GS or is the real differentiation between the two models the 'optional extras' fitted as standard.

Thanks again for the write up.

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http://www.moto-andalucia.com

Good stuff Tim, well written.

From the specs the detuned 650 version looks to be more properly tuned for it's usage - i.e. more torque on low rpm, thus more usable for DS use. How did the 650 engine pulled on very low rpms? How was the gearing, wide or narrow for the power delivery?

I always wondered about what'd be, a "650" engine on the 800 frame

Let's hear your thoughts when you've tested the 800 then.

Good report there Tim.

I have not been riding that bike but I took a long look at it last Saturday at the BMW official launch day. It seems to be a worthy successor to the single cyl F650GS and those around me showed as much interest in the 650 as the 800: they were side by side on the showroom floor and there was no impediment to handling the bikes etc etc - I sat on both, as I did at the NEC show last November, but those bikes were "bolted to the floor".
The physical differences between the 650 and 800 have been picked out previously in other posts IIRC: the most obvious, to the eye, are the single front disc brake on the 650, cast wheels in place of wire spokes, the different forks, a different (in colour anyway - different rating?) spring on the shock absorber, different screens as standard & what else? - I can't remember, but I don't recall the bars being different.

The 650 differs from its' predecessor by not having a dry sump oil tank: very obvious that the oil check is now "down there" near the ground, via a dip stick and no sight window, compared with the dip stick that has been located in the faux fuel tank (the battery is still in that false tank).
We had the seat removed by the salesman, and there is naff all room under there - it is taken up with the usual gubbins including the electronic stuff and the fuel tank. There is a very basic, i.e. pretty useless, tool kit fixed to the underside of the seat. On the single cyl 650 there is a tiny cubby hole in the rear rack area - this is now gone and the seat is locked by the ignition key in the usual place as per most other bikes.

At around £5500 the F650 twin is about 10% more than the new XT660Z single cyl Tenere which a Yam dealer tells me will be in the showrooms next month. So, it is in the ballpark on pricing, whereas the F800GS, with a few desirable extras such as heated grips, was priced at about £7400 OTR (about £6750 for the basic bike).

Slightly off topic!! :-
A story/rumour doing the rounds among the public last Saturday was to the effect that the current, revised, 1200GS is the last: BMW cannot get that boxer engine to meet the future Euro exhaust emissions 4, 5 (and whatever comes after that) regulations. Maybe you have heard something similar?
As ever, the salesmen know nothing!

Cheers,

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Dave

Andy: BMW wants to appeal to the existing F650 market but using essentially the same bike as the mid-range F800GS. So there's lots of 'positioning' statements and deliberate differences, some minor, others not so.

The F650 is slightly detuned through the use of different cams (71 BHP against 85), has shorter suspension travel, different bodywork, 19-in front wheel against 21-inch, a smaller radiator, upside down forks, and so forth.

But coming the other direction it's got a 20 BHP performance hike and an extra cylinder over the older F650 at a price of just £100 more than the outgoing model. It's at the same price level as the single cylinder G650 models.

Margus: I don't think increasing the torque was their purpose, more one of creating a differential. The pick up from low revs is lovely. Gearing as with all BMWs is road oriented whereas personally I would always prefer a lower walking-pace first gear.

Walkabout: I checked out the bars (650 are steel, 800 are alloy) but it's not something people would notice. I believe there's some room under the seat at the back if ABS is not fitted.

There's an enthusiastic review of the F650 on ADVriderSome more links
- Little secrets of the F800GS and F650GS

- Test F650GS--a pleasant surprise

Tim

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Just a few more comments.

The front brake on the single cyl F650GS is a single disc, as on many other bikes of course, and I have never experienced it pulling to the side.

Fuel consumption for the single has always been around 70 MPG, no matter how much one twists that throttle!

BMW handguards have never been standard; as far as I recall they cost about £150 when ordered with a new bike. (heated grips are about £200).

The BMW luggage for the 650/800 bolts on the existing frame/lift handles points (as discussed with the sales guys last Saturday). It is the same as the stuff on the 1200GS, but black rather than silver in finish, and it costs about £550.
So, you could use 1200 luggage on a 650/800?

Ride height: the lowered 650, with factory lowered suspension and low seat, is identical in height to the predecessor 650 (which my wife has, which is why I was interested) - according to the sales guys. It certainly feels and looks the same height.

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Dave

I only stated the non-pull factor to counter what someone else had reckoned. Yes, many bikes have single rotors.

Handguards are standard on 1200GS and GSA. I was quoted £135 (fitted price) for the large 650/800 handguard set. Engine bars would be £280 fitted, aluminium bash plate £171.

Metal Mule say they will be able to provide 650/800 pannier frames (229.99) and top box support (£91.99) in about 7-10 days. They had a loaner bike to create the jig and are now waiting for their own. They are also intending to market bash plate, radiator guard, reservoir guard, etc.

I briefly looked at the panniers and there seemed quite a difference from the 1200 varios. I've seen a pic of the 1200GSA aluminium panniers on the 800 and certainly Touratech and SW Motech are gearing up to provide.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

[quote=Smokin' Lizard;178916]


Maybe I'm a little confused or BMW have a problem with numbers, but is the F650GS actually using the same engine as the 800GS or is the real differentiation between the two models the 'optional extras' fitted as standard.

quote]

Just to answer the specific question: it is the same engine fitted in these new bikes - as Tim describes, there are internal differences to produce different performance.
They are both a nominal 800cc capacity.

Somewhere, I can't recall where, I have read that only the 650 can be restricted to 33 BHP for the UK driving licence regulations.

For what it is worth: the 650 "says so" on the graphics - it lies therefore! The "big" bike says nothing about engine capacity.
Edit: for accuracy, the Gunmetal grey version of the 800 has F800GS graphics on the front but the yellow/black version has a simple, and big, GS graphic on the tank - doesn't matter at all, but they are different - made me think that one of them was going to be the "Adv" model (or the "Dakar").
I believe that a UK registration document will show either bike as 800cc.

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Dave

Ah, that's luxury then. I have only paid out for the single 650 and they were not supplied with standard handguards.

Got to say that I looked a bit sideways at the sales guy when he reckoned that the luggage is the same - would need defining viz a viz the racks alone.
Yes, there will be lots of other suppliers of luggage in any case.

Cheers,

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Dave

Hiya, had a look at the 800GS today and liked the look and feel of it... seems pretty bloody comfy compared with the KTM! was struck by a couple of things though.

A couple of electical components seem a little exposed, although i am sure this can rectified.

Looks difficult to get to the spark plugs, although the service interval at 6000 miles is very good.

The tank capacity at 16 litres seems a bit low, does anyone know if there is anyone working on ways to enlarge this or easilly carry additional fuel?

Looks a very promising overland bike generally though.

William

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Will

Some day so soon....

hi tim,

i have just read your first post on this topic and then others. i think you requirements also meet with suzuki dl650 (except weight). have you had a test ride on dl? or do you just want to buy a bmw?

your comments are always precious for us (at least for me). thanks

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ozhan u.
website under construction

Hi William,
I sat on the back of a static 800 as a pillion to a rider: there is quite a bit of room and either can slide around on the seat. The knee angle was comfortable, for a few minutes at least!

Yes, the reg/rec is very exposed on the side (that should keep it cool) - is that what you had in mind, or are other things sticking out?

I think all modern BMWs have 6000 miles official service intervals - certainly the "old" single cyl 650 has that specified.
Similarly, most modern bikes seem to bury the spark plugs out of sight, out of mind and difficult to get at. They are not done every 6000 miles - maybe 12000, I can't remember. Irridium tips should last longer of course.

Cheers,

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Dave

I took an F800GS out yesterday. First impressions were that the view from the cockpit is very much as the F650 (hardly surprising) and the seat height wasn't that greater--more of which later. As with the F650, the clutch bites quite late in the lever travel which takes a few minutes to get used to. Clutchless changes both up and down the box are easy to do but can be jerky at lower revs compared to the 1200GS.

The F800's higher screen provides a bit better wind protection than the F650 but I would still prefer something higher for touring.

I tried to gauge the performance gain over the 650, but to be honest I couldn't feel any improvement, both bikes have ample power given their lighter weight.

The biggest difference for me is the larger front wheel on the F800 which has a negative effect for road riding. The bike doesn't drop into corners like the F650 and I found myself having to consciously use counter steering. I particularly didn't like the effect of braking mid corner! Having said this, I guess it's something you would get used to.

When I took the F650 out I hadn't realised the brakes were not semi linked, so you need to operate both. I've read a couple of reviews panning the F-GS brakes but they seem fine to me. They are not as sharp as a servo-assisted 1200, and feel about the same as the later non-servo 1200.

Playing with the onboard computer I found that in addition to average fuel consumption, there's a actual fuel consumption display showing the impact of the throttle setting. This would be extremely if there were long distances between petrol stops and you were trying to eek out the maximum range.

The test bike was equipped with vario panniers and top box. Whilst similar in concept to the 1200GS vario luggage, the panniers are not interchangeable as the exhaust cutaway is different. It might be possible to bring over the 1200GS top box with bit of Heath Robinson work.

I couldn't understand why the silencer sticks out so far. On other F800 models there's about 15mm gap between the rear tyre and the silencer, whilst on the F-GS bikes the gap is something like 60mm. The rear bodywork of the bike is already wide due to the underseat fuel tank and the exhaust gap will limit the size of alloy panniers.

I found an extremely muddy track that got worse and worse the further I went, with several deep sections of deep water that came over the foot pegs. But despite being shod with Battle Wing tyres the bike was confidence-inspiring and I tackled sections with more gusto than I would have with the GSA, even doing a couple of power slides. There was a 150mm step at one stage which the bike easily took, but I can't say that I noticed the larger front wheel contributing any improvement over the F650 offroad capabilities.

Back at the showroom I found that the bike I had been testing had a low seat which explains why it didn't seem that higher compared to the F650. When you sit on a low seat version in the showroom with your feet on the floor the hard seat edges dig into your thighs, but this doesn't happen on the road, and I certainly had found the low seat comfortable enough when riding as I hadn't noticed it was fitted.

Sitting on the display bike with the standard seat in the showroom the extra height was immediately apparent and it's about the same as my 1200GSA with the seat in low. You can order a low seat as a free-of-charge factory fit, or buy a second seat for about £175. I currently use a low seat on the 1200GSA when I expect to be going offroad and have an Airhawk seat on top which I inflate for the road sections.

One of the concerns I mentioned in the F650 review was whether the 'tank' area would be easily scratched if the bike was dropped--on the 1200GS the cylinder heads help prevent the bike going flat on the floor. Well I found out! I had been sitting astride the F800 chatting to the salesman and another couple in the showroom and when I went to get off the bike I hadn't realised that I had flicked the side stand up. The bike and I went down big time! How embarassing. A careful examination revealed no damage to the 'tank' area, just a slight scratch on the clutch lever. Woops.

So which bike do I prefer?
For looks the 800 has it. The matt magnesium F800 version looks particularly classy, especially in conjunction with the gold anodised forks, but why on earth didn't BMW use gold anodised wheel rims per the G650 X Challenge? The F650 is a pleasing-enough design but the 650 badging annoys me intensely and it would be one of the first things I would change, removing it with a hot air blower.

On the road, both bikes need a screen upgrade plus handlebar protectors. There's no discernable performance difference and the 21-in front wheel of the F800 is a liability, so for me the F650 has it. I'm also not keen on going back to tubed tyres of the F800.

Off road I guess the 800 has it due to the better ground clearance and the larger front wheel, but I think you'd need to be an experienced offroader to notice the differences and even more experienced to take advantage of them. You'd need to spend money on both bikes on engine bars (standard on the 1200GSA) and a decent bash plate.

Price? No contest, the F650 wins hands down.

So it's a draw.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Another good summary report therein Tim.
I'm slightly surprised that there has not been more comment on this thread about these latest Beemers (no one else been on a test ride I guess) - maybe it is a sign of the mature attitudes of those who read and contribute to this website (compared with the almost mass hysteria shown in some other locations ) that there is no great rush to jump onto one or other of these bikes.

Are you going to toss a coin of the realm then?

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Dave

Thanks for a very useful review, I have wondered about the difference for a while now.. cheers

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2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com