Hi all,

In my previous post about traveling to the Stans and Siberia, (then possibly Australia and south east Asia) several of you talked about the F800GS. Although "sexy", I had not been completly convinced by the bike after trying it 2 years ago.
Now, I just come back from an enduro training at BMW Hechlingen enduro park (Germany) where I had a chance to ride for 2 days that bike and I have been quite impressed how easy i was to handle it on rough terrain and especially the feeling of ligthness and fantastic balance it has. What I did not like is the lack of low-end torque, the very long 1st gear, the throttle that is not so smooth... All in one, it forces to use a lot of clutch and to always have quite high revs... Have you experienced the same?

I also found lots of contradictory information about the reliability of the bike on the web, but very few reports of travelers riding it on RTW for overland trips. What is the the value of the bike for long-range dual sport travelling? Has it been seriously experienced now, after being for 3 years on the market? Have the youth problems been fixed? Besides the better power on highways, especially for a loaded bike, the better resale value, is there really an added-value compared to the F650 Dakar?

Hey Kick,

It, like a lot of other bikes, is perfectly fine for long range dual sport travelling.

I rode one a couple of years back from Ushuaia to Alaska on the last leg of a RTW wander. The other legs I rode a KLR and a DL1000 (long story) so it was interesting to compare and contrast.

As a mid size, it fits in the middle of the bike spectrum so doesn't do any one thing really well but everything pretty well.

If you plan on doing a lot of off road, then you could look at a smaller bike, go with soft bags, etc. as off road, lighter is always better. If you think that you are not going to venture off the highway at all, then you could go bigger or more to an on road orientated dual sport like a Vstrom. If like most people you don't really know what you are going to ride exactly but want to be able to go on and off road with out too much worry, then it's a good fit as it provides great flexibility.

The consensus is that the more years a bike is on the road, the more miles there will be to point out any faults and hopefully allow them to be addressed. If that is a concern for you, then I would think that three years is typically more than enough. That's my perception anyways from my experience having worked for a company manufacturing parts for the transportation industry.

Anyways, it boils down to finding the bike that best matches you and your intended ride. From what you have mentioned about your trip, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that bike.

Happy planning and have a great trip.

I never understood why BMW is proud of the fact that the bike has a close ratio gearbox. I could sort of understand that on the F800S or ST, but using the same ratios on the GS was just being lazy. Top gear on the higher-geared F650GS is just right, but at the expense of a ridiculously high first gear. The F800GS has a lower, but still not low enough first gear, but could do with a higher top gear. What a mess!

The 800cc twin F650GS is easier on the throttle and better state of tune (IMHO) than the F800GS. I never understood why BMW called the former the F650GS when it's an 800cc.

I hate the side stand and the centre stand. If the bike is heavily loaded it can revolve around the side stand and collapse on its side. Many of the early problems seem to be less common on later models--steering head bearing failure, chain failure, radiator top hose disconnect, rear wheel bearing failure. Still not impressed with the OEM chain, suggest you change before serious journey.

Despite all the problems the F650/800GS is up there with the XT660Z as a RTW candidate (I have one of each). Fuel economy is absolutely brilliant. Because of the underseat tank, the bike has a wide arse (100mm wider than the R1200GS), so keep to narrow panniers.

It's also good for higher-speed touring, I did 960 miles plus a cross-channel ferry crossing in 23 hours coming back from eastern Poland. Many owners would like to meet the designer of the seat and hit him over the head with it. I use an Airhawk inflatable cover to make it more bearable. The screen is not high enough for cold climates.

Not found the perfect out-of-the-crate bike yet...

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Si Johnson took one to Russia last year and the clutch gave up. I think a new one had to be sent out if my memory serves me right. Check out his story at

Away From Here

I know a guy who rode his from UK to Capetown..

After two engine rebuild on warrenty, he was worried but set off anyway.

It kept cutting out on him all the time while in Africa. Turned out to be the side stand switch which was an easy fix.

Apart from that, he said it was faultless....

There have been quite a few posts on here about fuel pump failures !! Do a search.

Either way, seems a massive improvement over the earlier F650's

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Yeah.. That sounds like BMW !!

They sell the bike with videos and brochures of it flying over sand dunes and bouncing rock fields; but when their bikes fall apart because of it, they don't want to know...

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

It's not a great bike. It's a nice bike for those who want to brag about the potential of their bike rather than finding out for themselves if it has any. It's also not a good bike to own out of warranty. In my opinion the power over a 650 single is not enough to warrant the massively reduced reliability, simplicity and price. I had one, very nice to ride in the short term. Seat is torturous over 50 miles and screen is a joke (again, my opinion but a taller screen looks ridiculous).
Very expensive to get bits to increase the versatility and usefulness of the bike and I found it fragile. Build quality is not where it should be either. Sadly this and a lot of other bikes (triumph 800, etc) are now the latest trendy fashion and are being built japanese style to fill a gap in the market rather than for genuine durability. There needs to be another Dakar style rally where bikes like this can compete and we might see better bikes getting to the market. Until then enduro-tourers come with starbucks coffee holders.

What evidence do you have that the Triumph Tiger 800 is built to a similar crappy standard that the F800GS is built to? I think the Tiger is a much higher quality machine, in fact.

I've got to way in on this one but full disclosure I'm an F800GS owner (wife has the F650GS twin) and a big time Yamaha fan. A true contradiction indeed.

It's my belief that there is truly no perfect overland bike. Like stated previously its all about compromise, what you value in a machine and its' capabilities.

All bikes have something go wrong at some point, but the F800GS has had its fair share upfront to be sure. Mine has been flawless so far with the exception of the recalls, (fingers crossed). Yes the throttle is "snatchy".

The new 660 tenere may have been my choice but I can't get one here in Canada. I've had several Yamahas in the past and have had very few problems. Then again they were very different bikes that weren't expected to travel thousands of miles over terrain varying from tarmac to Mongolian plains.

So what to do? First determine where you will really be riding, we all think we are "hardcore" but the truth is very few are and that's not a bad thing. Buy the bike that fits you, buying a 1200 adventure if you are 5'.4" and 150 pounds wanting to ride off-road maybe mission impossible. Lastly know your machine and its potential weaknesses. Prevention is always the best medicine. Lastly get on a bike and ride, shit happens and that very often is the best part of the adventure.

__________________
One Lucky Dude..


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www.worldwideride.ca

There is one bike I definitely would NOT take on a RTW and that's the F800GS - way too many problems; pretty indisputable problems, too, from people that have done big trips on them. In fact, I have to say I would steer clear of BMW full stop, given their reputation for reliability (or not).

Of course all bikes can have their problems, but BMWs have more than most - a 30% warranty rate on new bikes - that's outrageous. The V-strom 650 has something like a 2% warranty rate.

It would have to be Japanese bike (think XT660Z) or Triumph for my money, based on personal experience and hearsay, but what else does one have to go on?

You know it must be a bad'n when you don't have the usual:

"How dare you slag off my BMW, it's the best bike in the world"

Crikey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I had so many faults on my initial F650GS twin that after 22,000 miles BMW part funded a replacement. I now use a Tenere as my main travel bike so the replacement F650GS has only done 4,000 miles in the past 18 months.

Following the bad press with F800S and ST problems, BMW did itself no favours with the rushed launch of the F650/800GS with a resulting abysmal QA and attempts by the company to duck warranty responsibility on a whole range of problems.

Although I almost choke writing the words, much of that is in the past, and if you were choosing a new bike right now the situation is now much better. Nevertheless if I were embarking on a RTW trip with a F650/800GS I would do quite a lot of preventative work (even on a new bike) starting with replacing the sub-standard chain and extracting and repacking wheel and steering head bearings. I would also attempt to resolve the side stand issue through custom engineering. And then there's the other 'design flaws' remaining such as the hard-as-a-plank seat, low screen, blah, blah...

Here's a link to threads on some of these topics on UKGSer.

It will be interesting to see how the Tiger XC gets on with hard-arse journeys. If it really does well it could stick a stake through the heart of the F800GS.

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Exactly, Ted. It's clearly a stonking piece of sh1t as a travel bike and even the owner's aren't disputing it!

Ha ha ha. I nearly bloody bought one as well but thought I'd wait until the beta testers had put it through it's paces - glad I did too.

C'mon gents, a bit more unemotional and balanced commentary please.

As the proud owner of a BMW, and a Suzuki and a Honda (and formerly a Kawaski) I find the strong emotions associated with specific brand loyalty and brand hatred endlessly fascinating and somewhat perplexing.

For sure any new model is going to have teething problems until all the manufacturing issues and assembly issues are worked out. Having worked in the manufacturing industry that produces things that go into automobiles, heavy trucks, and a very small amount of motorcycles, I've seen it firsthand.

It's an incredibly complex process, and that's why you see huge companies with industry leading quality control histories (eg. Toyota) still have recalls. It is a process that is impossible to perfect. Multiple suppliers produce items at various times using different inputs and different personnel. Conditions vary, and therefore so does quality.

Over time, you are able to identify and adjust for recurring issues. Unfortunately, there are always sporadic issues that will crop up due to a batch of substandard inputs or workmanship. Some companies are better at dealing with both these things than others. But make no mistake, all companies are challenged by this as everyone has been forced to move some or all manufacturing to low cost centers.

Needless to say, industry insiders are rightfully skeptical of sweeping generalizations claiming that any one vehicle or motorbike is either perfect or a piece of junk. Obtaining authentic performance data that is verifiable and statistically relevant is extremely difficult.

One big barrier is owner bias. A person buys one vehicle and it is either good or bad based on their perception of their experience. 100% (1/1) of his sample therefore proves his conclusion. In his mind, the evidence is irrefutable, and understandably that is why you get black and white opinions.

That's not to say they are incorrect, it is just that the individual experiences need to be extrapolated over a much larger data set to glean any really meaningful conclusions. Once meaningful conclusions can be determined though, quality control issues are costly, and cost erodes profits so in general manufacturs are very incented to identify and correct true quality issues.

(And if you think that bike owners are passionate and opinionated folks, try sorting through a truckers feedback when his $250K investment that also provides all the income for his family isn't running perfectly.)

To repeat my previous comments on the specific bike the OP asked about, it like a lot of other bikes, is perfectly fine for the ride you are planning.

There are a some of items that need addressing before you head out. If you want you can read through the chatter draw meaningful conclusions as to what faults seem to be well known and replace as necessary.

As for me, I bought mine overseas before they were available here so rode it from TDF to Alaska prior to the avaialbility of spare parts for it in the Americas. I wasn't too worried about it. It has gone through a fairly broad diversity of warm to hot weather conditions well and the next year I rode it up to the Canadian Arctic (Tuktoyuktuk). It doesn't start great colder than -15C but ran well up to -28.5C (much better than the operator). It has had the usual warranty gasket and hose replacements, otherwise it has performed as well and been pretty much as reliable as my KLR and DL. To each his own though. Happy planning.

Hilarious. probably from one of the goons who ride around Guilford in full Charley Boringman gear, on the way to Waitrose-do you really need 2 zegas and a top box for Pimms??