Tmotten: I was quite capable of servicing the Husky myself, I still have all the tools to strip a different reassemble the motor.

However, it doesn't sound like you have lived extensively in 3rd world countries. I ordered something from Hong Kong recently, got it 2 months later (instead of the quoted 1 to 2 weeks, fortunately I'd put my girlfriend's phone number on it as the post office couldn't find her address.
90% of houses here don't have street numbers or often even street names: the delivery guy forks to the village / suburb office to see if they can give directions, or they just ask around.

I tried to ship a laptop here 2 years back: 2 weeks quoted delivery time and cost was $120 to 200 plus, USPS or FEDEX. And even then it can get hung up in customs or in the local delivery loop.

Lastly, I travel around, and don't get a lot of pleasure in dragging a complete set of tools and spares with me. I may as well be on a GS in that case.

I hear the folks that want to have their ultimate machine, because they enjoy the way-out riding more than the travel and seeing stuff. That's funny as well, been there myself in the past.
But I'd put it to you that maybe you shouldn't be RTWing in that case, instead pick a bunch of ideal riding destinations where you won't get too far from support and medical, and have at it.

If you try to push the limits in most 3rd world countries, you stand a very good chance of crashing, and that isn't much fun at all: BTDT, don't want to do it again. Medical & emergency services, bike recovery / repair, trip delays/cancellation, are mostly much worse out here than in the West.

I also tend to disagree that you have to have the latest and greatest to enjoy the ride.
There's something to be said for the idea that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow.. In many places I've been, you will spend more time throttling back a top-end
Some of the best trips I've done have been on 125s to 200cc bikes, going places that would have been difficult and tiring (or impossible) on big machines. I find that I can enjoy riding 90% of the bikes out there. Excluding cruisers of course: I'd rather ride my bicycle...

Ad for the idea that bikes aren't the best form of transport, I rather disagree. Many of the places I've been recently you can only get to by bike (usually smaller ones) or horse/buffalo. That's how the locals transport all their stuff.

And very often in those places, you don't want to be on the latest & greatest, blending in by riding what the locals do (or something close) vastly reduces the likelihood of kidnapping & robbery. At the very least, the 'American tax' (higher prices asked from foreigners) is likely to be much reduced if you blend in with the locals better. You will also have more genuine interactions with them.

Just an alternative perspective on bikes and travel, we each have to work out what works best for us.

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

You seem to have some strongly-held beliefs about motos that I don't necessarily agree with, so...

Yeah, whatever...sorry, but in my experience GS are generally pretty reliable. I know its fun to hop on the anti-GS bandwagon, but...

I think there's a slight gap between a Kimco and an "ultimate machine," and I guess people should choose what they RTW on, rather than you deciding for them. People can and do RTW on just about everying from post-bikes to Harleys to Goldwings. And you hardly have to limit yourself to "ideal riding destinations." I mean, c'mon...

Who says you have to "push the limits" to have fun? Again, there's a large gap between riding a 125cc and "pushing the limits", and I enjoy spending my vacations squarely within that gap.

sorry, to suggest that I will suddenly "blend in" with the locals, or that I will have more genuine interactions with them, because I'm on a tiny bike is a bit ridiculous. I guess that could be partially true if I left all protective gear at home as well so, but I'm not willing to do that, and as long as I don't will hardly blend in with anybody.

Must admit I care not a jot what anyone chooses to ride - it does not affect me I loved my KTM I loved my 80gs I really quite like my Infield, My first travel bike was a r65 bm back in the mid 70's I also liked that for all its faults but I also like my pushbike and i like walking - can't figure out why everyone seems to be so uptight about other peoples choice of whats the right and wrong way to go places - I mean I never figured out the sidecar thing :confused1: but then again a really good friend Iain and Debz just used one such contraption to do their RTW and completed the journey with some ups and some downs but is that not true of any machine you would use - great fun but bleeding weird and for mad, eccentric and strange people (Sorry Debz if your listening in but he does look mad and weird and I am sure I detected a hint just a smidgen of eccentricity in the plot, your just as barmy in a more controlled way me thinks - you hide it well, and both great friends to me so I forgive you those particular traits ) Jake.

Hey...

What about Ewan and Charlie ????



Almost time for that isn't it ???

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I heard from a mate down the pub E and C will ride CCM on their next jaunt...

__________________

TBS.com

I did hear a rumour somewhere that Charley Boorman tore a CCM poster off the wall while exclaiming "How dare they?" when Ewan told him CCM were not prepared to pay them the 350,000 pounds in cash they asked for, for the next trip.

__________________

I heard Ewans smarmie grin was the inspiration for the front end of the new GS and Charlie farts 98 Ron unleaded..

www.touringted.com

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Any time a millionaire several times over gets expensive stuff for free should elicit a smarmy grin.

__________________
Orange, it's the new black.

Depends where you are riding. Some places you can push limits on a 125.

As for the GS reference, you misread / misquoted. I was referring to having to drag a full toolkit / extensive spares so as to tour on my Husky. That weight would have pushed me to needing a bigger bike to carry the load.

And for the Husky, that's necessary, at least spare chain and all the associated tools / pullers to service it. Plus the clutch service items.

As it happens though, I'm one of the apparently few riders who are GS haters, based on personal experience. My '98 RGS that I bought new has been the single most unreliable vehicle I've ever owned (going back to 1973), followed by my Husky, although the Husky would have to compete with my '69 Renault 10.

My much-despised chinabike (by the motorcycle' experts' here and elsewhere) has been more reliable than either of those two bikes.



Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

There is no doubt there are difficulties getting stuff in remote locations, but with a bit of forward planning and creativity this can all be sorted out. Which parts not required for routine maintenance are really required on a bike? Your current situation is representative to that of people on a trip, but not having a network of friends locally, it's more difficult (not impossible) to arrange for things to get sent out.

Having read Horizons threads before I started doing my own bike trips I can't help but feel the reliability argument is over stated. As is the blend in, old is better, or old means being able to get local parts argument. That's not my experience at all. I've been fortunate enough to not need to search for parts, but every part that I needed was not locally available, and that was on an old bike.
I'm six feet, blue eyed and blond. Including facial hair. The Pakistanis thought that was piss funny. I've got no hope blending in. Luggage doesn't help either. But I think remote communities would roll out to see what rolled in regardless who you are. You are a foreigner to their community, not just their country. Being dirty can help.

The tools required on BM's and I guess Euro bikes in general are ridiculous, I agree. It's a breath of fresh air, having moved to a WRR from a F650, to see how simple things are done on the other side of the world. Even with a higher level of technology used. My tool and spares kit is tiny now. A motion pro tool kit takes care of just about anything. I hope CCM take this into consideration.

The fun factor is different for everyone. Generally, most people on this forum, myself included, start off with no or nearly no off road experience. So a 'get by on anything and enjoy the smell of the flowers' approach is more common. The more you do these adventure rides, locally or abroad, you tend to get better at it. With that comes a divide in interest. Some stick to the old recipe, others enjoy the off roading and push the boundaries of themselves and/or equipment. Either by going nuts across the Simpson desert on a posty (CT110) for charity every year to test their endurance, or deck out the best of the best equipment to enjoy the riding and performance. This thread falls under the latter interest.

I've got to say that the improvement in equipment is massively noticeable. Both for enjoyment but mainly safety. Good gear saved my life in plenty occasions. I'm still suffering a fractures humerus (since November) after a front wheel wash out, at low speed (20-40km) not pushing it, on an old TTR. I ripped the rear hose out of the rear brake banjo with a bunch of vines stuck in the rear wheel on my WRR the day before. I was shitting my pants that whole day on that TTR. Felt more safe on the WRR without having a rear break on a trail ride half a day. And I'm convinced I wouldn't have crashed on it.

From this I'm further convinced that good gear is a prerequisite for going out, particularly remote bush, if you do decide to go there. Friends who have done those posty rides reckon they've never felt on the edge as much. And that's compare to race events. Just for a bit of background information, I didn't get choppered out. Instead having to sit in a bouncy car with either end of the bone playing chop sticks with each other. Luckily we trailered into the bush this time, so there at least there was a car. Glad I don't ride alone.

You mis-read it. I said there are people who enjoy the riding AS MUCH as the travelling. I get huge pleasure out of riding to places and villages that haven't been visited before. You twisted a post that was clearly stating that for some people the riding is as important as the travelling into "the travelling doesnt matter" just so you could make a point.

See above. I am not interested in riding off road in western europe. Its not why I buy a bike. Its not why I choose a particular model. Its not what floats my boat. I am quite capable of deciding what riding I want to do. Suggesting I shouldn't be RTWing is just an absurd suggestion.

Again, its more than a little bit patronising. I have been adventuring in the third world for 20 years. I know my limits, and I am perfectly capable of choosing my own risk reward balance when it comes to riding.

But its more than patronising, its totally contradictory to why people are here on this site at all. The idea that 'because medical services are worse than in the west we all should plod along on a slow old boat and just be happy with it, because anything else is somehow foolhardy', is the opinion of someone who has given up challenging himself. If that opinion had any validity, then why travel to the third world at all? Its inherently risky. Traffic is more dangerous, emergency services are still worse, even if you potter around on a C90. Better to travel in a Volvo 4WD if we dont like risk. Why take any risk at all? Lets all stay at home in the suburbs and forget this whole adventure concept altogether.

Again, thats fine for you, but not everyone subscribes to one level of risk. There are guys on the site who love going into danger zones. There are others who prefer sticking to main roads in developed countries. Its certainly not for you to proscribe an appropriate amount of risk for HUBB users.

Horizons Unlimited exists to help people find the right risk-reward balance for themselves. Thats what all the information is here for in the end. Its not about eliminating risk, or minimising risk. Its about choosing the level of risk that suits the individuals risk appetite.

__________________

A few years back we submitted an article to the BMF Journal (and others) about our travels in Africa which were probably very tame by Walters standards. We received a very strong letter from the editor telling us that it was extremely irresponsable of us to undertake such a trip and that he wouldn't consider publishing the article as it may encourage others to take on similar risky adventures.

However, I don't agree that "Horizons Unlimited exists to help people find the right risk-reward balance for themselves. Thats what all the information is here for in the end." Some people in here are just looking for information on travelling to foreign parts, equipment, bikes etc or just enjoy reading about other peoples experiences. Not many, I suspect, consider the risk factors before they set off on their first trip especially related to the type of terrain or the medical support. More people worry about not speaking the language than they do about exceeding their riding abilities.

While some of the questions on HUBB are regarding procedural questions, most of them seem to be in some way related to assessing risk or degree of difficulty. Road condition questions, language necessity questions, etc are all related to risk return evaluation. Most route planning discussion is either about how difficult a route is or what is worth seeing there - 100% a risk return discussion. Even bike selection is all about risk return. The return being the either tge Fun u have on a particular bike or maybe even the personal satisfaction someone gets for riding his super tenere across the Gobi when others said he is nuts to bother trying. The risk being either mechanical or the risk of not having fun.

Sure there are some questions like where is the best place to apply for visa x or what oil is best, but most questions do somehow come back to risk vs reward and trying to clarify how much risk and how much reward there is is in a particular choice.

I gotta say I REALLY don't consider my stuff particularly risky. I tend to research stuff pretty thoroughly. Thats a huge uncertainty mitigator. I think someone else unprepared and without language doing exactly the same trip could be taking on a very different level of risk. Level of risk is specific to each set of circumstances. Many aspects of recent trips I have done I would never do alone, as the risk would be too high for my tastes. Yet even with a single co-rider, I feel happy with the risk level. Even number of and riding skill levels of your companions is a big factor when it comes to assessing risk. I dont ride as aggressively when alone as when I have the back up factor of having companions with me. There are some routes I would not do alone, but would be comfortable even with an off road novice as back up (like the Old Summer Road).

There are some bikes I have been considering for years but have not pulled the trigger on getting one and building it up because I am concerned that the lesser reliability of a certain bike introduces a whole new layer of risk, which bearing in mind the remoteness of areas I like riding, becomes a risk factor too far.

So not only is the appropriate amount of risk an individual wants to take on very subjective, but even the objective measure of that risk is totally unique for each individual trip, and depends on such a diverse amount of factors including the number and riding skill of your companions, the reliability or perceived reliability of your and your companions bikes, as well as the more obvious ones such as the political stability and general security of the area you are travelling to, your riding skill level, your adventuring experience, your mechanical skill as it applies to your motorcycle, your ability to speak local languages, your preparedness for local road or trail surface, weather, food conditions etc.

Risk, and how you shape and manage that risk is very much an individual thing. There have been 3-4 trips on here (a couple of cycle trips, a car trip and a moto trip) in the last 6-12 months that have made me think ... Fu@k me thats a much ballsier risk appetite than I have - and that's in areas where I generally feel most comfortable - former soviet Eurasia. But thats just my outside view. Maybe on the inside it wasnt that risky. Maybe they did the research and found its actually pretty do-able and the risk is manageable. Or maybe they just have a mega risk appetite. Either way, I dont think my own risk appetite is particularly high. It might look that way from the outside, but on the inside I have a lot of risk mitigating factors working for me. There is method in the madness.

__________________

A bike journal lecturing on risks and safety. That's a good one.

What a load of BS to talk up risks overseas. Where is the boundary there? Before immigration or customs?