No, the main reason you WON'T have that bike in Thailand is . . . it's no longer possible to bring it in under any circumstances as of about June 2012. Cambodia . . . still no problem but you can't ride around on a foreign tagged vehicle in Thailand very long.

Too bad . . . Cambodia's paperwork and visa issues are much simpler than Thailand . . . but on balance, I'm sticking with the LOS.

Not sure what "lived extensively" is but the last 11 years have been in Thailand (2 years), India (6 years) and Thailand (3) years. Thailand is "too easy" compared to India and in many, many ways easier than any western country.

+1000 generally but my TE630 is ALWAYS way more fun than my DRZ, and it's alot faster, too, on street or dirt.

It's the unplanned stuff that'll really get you here, however. I'm looking at a buddy's cracked lower triples on an XR400. This is going to be a huge PIA AND expensive and time consuming.

Seriously agree. It's almost irrationally overstated. My father-in-law rides 100,000km a year. He's done it for 14+ years. It used to all be done on . . . Harleys ! Now he's entirely on BMWs which he finds the most reliable bike he's ever ridden. (He's a machinist.)

The engine's are all pretty good or better. The transmissions might make clunky noises and have too few gears but . . . they work, fine. The soft parts do wear out, whether the quality is good or crap. It's the connective tissue that fails or degrades in a noticeable manner, sometimes across just a single trip.

Really ? I find almost any euro bike easier to work on, if made in the last 15+ years (my '68 Ducati Sebring 350 required a neurosurgeon to manage the points !) . . . the japanese put an astonishing amount of attention and effort into delivering quality AT delivery. But they suck to work on or maintain. XR/DRZ cams . . . and valve shimming. MUCH easier on my KTM 950, aside from the tank removal and carb removal necessitated by a V-twin, than on those and . . . I could teach my wife to do it easily, quickly and confidently. The buddy with the cracked triples . . . Ducati/BMW certified tech - works at a Honda dealership now and says . . . "I've gone to hell . . . working on japanese machines."

The japanese are the master's of "special tool" such-and-such.

True that. Experience begets, generally, greater expectations and awareness. Rookies think just getting away on a slight grade at a red light is pretty amazing.

Hey, the 3x3 mod returns power AND improved economy.

My entirely original DRZ with 46/15 gearing returned just over 45 MPG @ 60MPH. The modded one will throttle wheelie in 2nd gear with a 100kg rider and returns >55MPG. (The MRD pipe certainly didn't hurt, either.)

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Orange, it's the new black.

The BM I had, had a knack for needing every size tool in the catalogue. So far the majority on the WRR are 8's and 10's. Haven't greased bearings and things yet. Or pulled the shims (under bucket like the BM), so dunno much about special tools yet. The BM certainly had some. Even on simple stuff like for the steering lock nut. But keeping it about the stuff you might do on a trip I reckon the Yammi wins hands down.

Is it not possible for a befriended local bike or even car dealer or importer to take delivery for unusual parts like clamps? If the label is an issue it could relabeled by a friend prior to posting.

Wouldn't be a big surprise ! I'm not the fan of BM's my father-in-law is but we have very different goals. I do like their riding experience - "character" - and find it almost devoid in the DRZ.

There's no small industry here that's been largely endangered doing just that. Largely operated by farang (folk of european descent) expats . . . they're slowly being squeezed out. There's an impressive collection of "non-book" bikes impounded in Chiang Mai - Ducati 916s, Harleys, etc.

The folks who want the big bikes don't vote (here). Parts importation is tricky because that's how alot of the non-book bikes got here - partially dis-assembled as "parts" to avoid duty.

The final reason the (specific) XR's triple will be a headache . . . Honda changes part numbers and parts seemingly to frustrate the backyard mechanic. Steerers, triple offset, accessory (gauge mounts, eg), bearing sizes, etc are ostensibly on a whim. Even a Honda dealer seems to have considerable sense of it all. (There are so many threads on JUST XR SM triples . . . )

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Orange, it's the new black.

LOS / Cambodia don't make up even half the countries in SE Asia. While bringing in my Husky to the Philippines wouldn't have been a piece of cake, I have some contacts here that would have registered it quite cheaply.

I've only been coming here for 7 years, and resident for 2.

But I did live in South Africa for over 40 years, and operated a business in Zimbabwe, for 3 years, working into Namibia, Zambia and Tanzania as well.
I also traveled extensively in the region, apart from working.

Most of those countries apart from South Africa make Thailand seem positively first world.



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Quite true . . . but they make up the bulk of countries where simple residence makes it either possible to bring a bike in (albeit expensive, generally) or access something decent on the local market. Singapore, Indonesia, Brunei, Timor or PNG. Nope. The rest aside from the 'Pines - only with a work permit and it must leave with you. I've no direct experience in the Philippines since working there in the middle 90's but . . . forums are full of nightmares.

Registration is the easy part, though not as easy as in Thailand.

Yeah . . . only folks from sub-saharan Africa that I knew weren't terribly troubled by anything in India.

My biggest complaint with Thailand is that it's too easy here.

So . . . I don't get the issues with bringing in the Husky. Tools and spares that are weighty ? You've got to be kidding me. I carry a bead breaker, extra wheel bearings & disc pads, and enough tools to work on carbs, rebuild forks, remove shock, etc on my KTM 950 and my whole kit is barely 20kg (tent, clothes, etc).

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Orange, it's the new black.

Very off topic and long....

I'm probably a bit gunshy on the Husky after the cam chain went at just over 6K km. Plus the clutch issues a lot seem to have concern me.
Either of those can happen with under 4000 miles on the clock, even some seem to go over 20k with no issues.
Whatever, the thought of adding the additional tools and spares over what you carry negates a lot of the advantages of riding a bike as light as the Husky (as light as the CRF250L).
Then there is the garage issue: I spend time between 3 cities / towns, and don't have a good workshop in any of them. Spreading finicky European engine internals over the concrete in dust and wind doesn't give me the old warm and fuzzies...

Besides that most of my riding here is Mindanao and Visayas, with a bit in northern Luzon. Very few roads that I ride need more than 200cc to stay well ahead of 99% of the traffic, and the majority I've done just fine on a dualsport Yamaha 125.

I've compared travel times point to point on the YBR, and while the occasional SUV or car comes past, usually I get past them in the next town or road (de)construction, never to see them again.
The 200 makes that even easier.

Another issue on the Husky is that it's not at all good two up, and a lot of my trips here involve a passenger (or 2). The smaller bikes are also far more fuel efficient, are just as comfortable, and have stronger subframes.

And then there's the other guy: I've had several near misses traveling faster than the general traffic. I'd be tempted to go a LOT faster on a bigger bike: BTDT. As it is, the gf and staff don't want to ride much with me anymore because I drive too fast (on the 125...).

By the time I got the Husky shipped and registered, I could have bought 1 or 2 bikes like my 200 or 125.

Also kind of strange, but after many years of bigger bikes, I find I'm enjoying the smaller ones.
The 125 is nowhere near as capable as the 610 off tarmac, yet I have taken it into worse terrain, as it's easy to pick up and move around if I need to, or to paddle through through mud and water. Although being so low and light, I hardly ever have to put a foot down.

The other surprise for me was that the 200 has the easiest standing position of all the bikes I've rented and owned, so while the Husky has way better suspension and power, I am more confident in rough going on the 200.
Admittedly my offroad skills are at best average...

Then there are the small things like tires. Roads here are real slippery at times, I've unintentionally spun up the rear on the 200 several times, and locked the front or slid it out a bit on several bikes. About the best tires I can find are limited to Chen Shin or IRC, other brands I've tried are godawful.
Getting a tire capable of handling even the 45 or so hp on the Husky means shipping from Manila or even overseas.

So, mostly it's just easier and more practical to to go with what's easily available. I can find a Yamaha or Motorstar (Zongshen distributor) dealer or 3 in just about any town or large village, who have an idea what parts can fit if they can't supply, or can bodge a fix, or can point me to a shop that can get it done.

So, long story but that's my reasoning. :-)

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That CCM has some oddball engineering. As much as I like oddball engineering, here are a couple of things that may be "interesting":
- The frame is made from bonded (glued) CNC machined and forged aluminium members. I have no problem with either aluminium alloys or modern adhesives from a strength or durability point of view, but how do you fix crash damage when you are in the middle of nowhere?
- There appears to be no structure around the radiator. Most enduro bikes are the same but radiator guards are commonly used to reinforce them.
- It looks like it has the concentric sprocket/swingarm arrangement. I wonder how easy it will be to change front sprockets in the field...
- Regarding the optional 6 speed transmission, the only way to fit an extra ratio inside the case is to reduce the width (and strength) of the other 5 gears. I think a wider ratio 5 speed would be a better option.
- The engine uses titanium valves, just like the BMW. Titanium has a tendency to gall, in other words it's not great for sliding parts. Titanium valves tend to wear seats and guides faster than stainless valves, which usually means more frequent valve clearance adjustment and cylinder head overhauls. Titanium valves are only used in race engines because they are lighter than stainless steel valves and so have less inertia, and less load on the valve springs at high rpm. If CCM did indeed re-spec the engine with a lower redline, then they would be retarded to continue with titanium valves as stainless ones are cheaper...
- According to the CCM brochure it makes 40.23 hp @ 7000 rpm and 31.6 ft-lbs at 6500 rpm. According to BMW G450X the BMW G450X makes 41 hp @ 7000 rpm and 32 ft-lbs at 6500 rpm. Hrrrmmm not much engine detuning has been done...
- Compression ratio of both engines is 12.0:1 and I suspect they would both need at least 96 RON fuel.
- The fact that they both have the same compression ratio leads me to believe they are both using the same piston. If CCM re-specced the engine components then it would be easy to select a new piston to drop the CR a little. This is standard practice when detuning race engines. The G450X piston has a very short skirt and only 2 piston rings (to reduce friction). This style of piston is common with enduro race engines, and one of the reasons they have to be overhauled so frequently.

To me it seems more like a Dakar race bike than a continent crossing adventure bike.

Nice post...

www.touringted.com

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Maybe CCM jumped into their own publicity with the initial spec for the existing version of the G450X engine, while they get on and tweek their own engines toward the stated aims of their new product.

Just a thought, but certainly that post is very good research and a good basis for questions to CCM from anyone who is even half interested in purchasing the bike.

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Dave

I don't really understand the need for putting that effort into a frame design personally.

How did yamaha overcome those valve issues with the WRR? It also has ti valves, but long service life.

I get the feeling that CCM initially planned on building a competition bike for various international rallies where 450cc is the maximum allowed. If I'm right that explains both the choice of engine, the high tech frame construction and the fact they will seek you a reusable transport crate come mobile workshop. Speaking with the guys at the HUBBUK they definitely seemed to be pushing the idea of ship the bike out, ride/race in the area, then pack up and ship back and didn't quite grasp the whole ride away from home and keep riding till you get back concept. At least they didn't on the Thursday, by Sunday having had ever single person there sit on their bike, compliment it and then ask how you get the petrol in when you've got luggage on the back, they seemed to have the idea that maybe they'd got more than an international rally bike on their hands and that maybe they'd created the bike many travellers have been crying out for.

They seemed truly amazed first that there was such a community of travellers and secondly at the massive welcome their bike would receive.

This would certainly explain some of the delays while they tweak the engine etc to suit the day in day out built rider and personally despite the fact I'll probably never end up buying one hugely welcome a manufacturer into the fold who seems so eager to listen and learn and not just present us with a product and day there you go this is what we and our marketeers think you lot want and need.

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The only titanium valved bike I have experience with is the 07 onwards WR450F. The service schedule says check valve clearances every 3rd race or 500 competition kms and inspect valves every 5th race or 1000 competition kms. That's under the most severe race conditions but if you extend that by a factor of 10 for more casual riding, that would mean removing the head for valve inspection every 10,000km.

Similarly for the G450X the valve clearances should be checked after every 20 hours of operation.

I was not aware the WR250R used titanium valves until your post. The little 250 has a couple of factors in it's favour. The valves are smaller and therefore lighter. I'm sure the cams would have less lift than the race 450s, both of these factors would mean softer valves springs and lower seat pressures, which put less stress on the valves. In addition to this Yamaha or someone else may have discovered some magical valve guide and seat materials which drastically increases valve life.

The early Honda CRF450R/X's had a lot of problems with their titanium valves with some lasting as little as 1000km, partly due to side thrust on the valves caused by poor head geometry. It was common to replace these with aftermarket stainless steel valves.

I have researched a bit about G450X stuff because just the other day I was considering converting a G450X into a cross-continent adventure bike. The G450X has a lot of things I like:
-stainless steel frame
-airbox location
-good suspension
-cheap second hand and most seem to have low km courtesy of gentleman riders
-modern 450cc engine design which has the potential to be very fuel efficient
-linkageless direct acting rear shock
-R&V Aqualine make a 12L front and 8L rear tank taking total capacity to 28L.

The big obstacle with this bike is the engine. For reference here is a cutaway diagram of the engine showing that piston, which looks similar to the piston from a formula 1 engine:


To adventurize the engine I would do the following. Costs are my very rough estimates in US dollars:
- Custom 3 ring piston to give CR of about 10.5:1 $500-$1000
- Custom stainless steel valves $1000+
- regrind standard cams with less duration but same lift $500
- Wide ratio 5 speed transmission from Albins Gears $5000
- MicroSquirt ECU $500
- Oil cooler+ tank to increase capacity to at least 4L, $500
- Rebuild engine with new bearings etc + machining + possibly new barrel - $1000-$2000?
- Dyno time $500

Things like the piston and valves are expensive because a lot of the cost goes into the component design and machine setup. If you are buying 4,6 or 8 pistons the cost is amortized over the lot, so the cost per piston is lower.

As you can see nothing is impossible, it just depends if it is worth the cost. It's a totally different proposition for an OEM who can spec the engine before it is built in quantity, in that case it would be cheaper to build than a standard G450X engine. The big question, is CCM having engines built to their specs, or buying a lot of surplus BMW engines?