Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Which Bike?
Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 8 Nov 2008
mollydog's Avatar
R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
Welcome to the Kawasaki home page
Kawasaki Heavy Industries - Company Description - Hoover's
__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Last edited by mollydog; 22 Mar 2009 at 00:12.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 9 Nov 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Essex UK
Posts: 186
Actually, I completely forgot about the other stuff they do, so you may be right!!
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11 Nov 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Town / South Africa
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
This is just typical for BMW and I continue to wonder why they can't get the basics right.

I crossed the Sahara on a Yamaha RD350 in 1978, closely followed by 4 BMWs (2 * R90/6 and 2 * R90/S).

My Yamaha came out intact with no damage to forks or subframe.

Of the 4 BMs, 3 snapped their front forks off at the base of the lower triple clamp and all 4 snapped subframes.

30 years later and I watch "wrong way round" to see snapped subframes on GS12s, and now I read here about snapped forks on GS650s.

When, oh when will the BMW factory ever learn, and when oh when, will the poor suckers who keep buying their crap ever see the light.

Garry from Oz.

I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.

Almost all BMW bikes were designed to be used on tar roads, or if you want, European road conditions. The suspensions fitted to all 1200GS's, F650's or even the F800GS has been designed to handle surfaced road conditions and even tough they can cope with a certain amount of off road use they will under perform in these conditions and if continuously used on heavy off road conditions they will fail.
I don't think BMW is denying the problem, which really have more to do with the marketing and PR department than with the engineers.
BMW like to sell their bikes using the Adventure image of the Camel man, but mostly their bikes are used for commuting and for fun rides close to home.

If you are doing hardcore off road traveling you are part of a really small group of riders not being catered for by the large OEM's as it is not financially viable to build bikes for this purpose. Most overlanders can't even afford a new R1200GS never mind a real off road tourer that might have to cost nearly double the price.

HPN is about the only factory producing hand built bikes in very small numbers for this purpose. The cost is astronomical but the bikes are superb and custom build around your needs and specifications.

Here is some of my personal experiences building my own bikes with modifications and parts from HPN.


YouTube - BMW GS by HPN; RIDE THE ADVENTURE

DIY your own bike, the HPN way.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 11 Nov 2008
mollydog's Avatar
R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
BMW's are MADE to ride off road, or so their ad campaigns suggest. So they should be up to Pistes'. Most overheat that delicate electrical system.
__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 18:22.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11 Nov 2008
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.

Almost all BMW bikes were designed to be used on tar roads, or if you want, European road conditions. The suspensions fitted to all 1200GS's, F650's or even the F800GS has been designed to handle surfaced road conditions and even tough they can cope with a certain amount of off road use they will under perform in these conditions and if continuously used on heavy off road conditions they will fail.
I don't think BMW is denying the problem, which really have more to do with the marketing and PR department than with the engineers.
BMW like to sell their bikes using the Adventure image of the Camel man, but mostly their bikes are used for commuting and for fun rides close to home.

If you are doing hardcore off road traveling you are part of a really small group of riders not being catered for by the large OEM's as it is not financially viable to build bikes for this purpose. Most overlanders can't even afford a new R1200GS never mind a real off road tourer that might have to cost nearly double the price.

HPN is about the only factory producing hand built bikes in very small numbers for this purpose. The cost is astronomical but the bikes are superb and custom build around your needs and specifications.

Here is some of my personal experiences building my own bikes with modifications and parts from HPN.


YouTube - BMW GS by HPN; RIDE THE ADVENTURE

DIY your own bike, the HPN way.
The RD350 is also a road bike ,so the comparison is valid .

Most ,if not all ,of the GS650 fork failures mentioned were on metalled roads .
The bike was being used for the purpose for which it was designed, so the failures are inexcusable .
BMW's attitude,once again, leaves a lot to be desired .

What has any of this got to do with HPN who produce specialised motorcycles in very small numbers?
BTW the DIY thread mentions a problem with HPN bikes at and above the speed of 130 kph ,has this been resolved ?
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11 Nov 2008
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
BTW the DIY thread mentions a problem with HPN bikes at and above the speed of 130 kph ,has this been resolved ?
It’s was not a HPN-related problem, check reply 73 (page 4).

Edit: Next post will be from Mollydog....

Last edited by AliBaba; 12 Nov 2008 at 00:51.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 12 Nov 2008
mollydog's Avatar
R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
More Than Tires

I gotta wonder about the S.A. guy and his basic skills when after his HPN customer (who later nearly dies) tells GS Workshop the bike wobbles at 130 kph and the GS doesn't solve the problem ... instead lets him ride away! In out back Africa, no less!
This guy in NOT NEW! He should have thought to swap out tires. This is so basic even a novice mechanic would have thought of it! Would you not agree?

So what is this guy doing "setting up" bikes for paying customers anyway? :confused1:

This guy is Wrong and should be LIABLE for not solving the problem before the customer ever rode the bike away. As you know, wobbles are not impossible to diagnose. One way or the other, they can be solved ... if time and care are taken by a skilled mechanic.

My guess is at least PART of the problem is in the geometry of the frame and set up of the bike. Something like: head angle, trail, rake, wheelbase, ride height, weight bias, head bearings .... now it's destroyed so no one will ever know for sure.
Something on that bike is screwed up. I've had some Michelin knobbies wobble but never cause loss of control or a complete tank slapper.

"REAL" bike manufacturers TEST bikes before selling them.


Patrick
__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 18:23.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12 Nov 2008
farqhuar's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oztralia
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.
G'day GS, good to hear from you.

WRT to my RD350, I'm the sort of guy who laughs in the face of anyone who tells me I can't do something.

What, ride an RD350 (the peakiest, 2 cylinder 2 stroke sports bike of the 1970s with no bottom end power, a lightweight frame designed for the road and to win asphalt races) around the world and across the Sahara? You've got be crazy my friends said. Well that's like a red rag to a bull so I eschewed more practical bikes, said stuff you, and went out to prove it can be done.

In the same way I've just come back home after riding 7,500kms around China on a local Chinese 125cc ROAD bike, and 30,000kms from Korea to Italy via Russia/Kazakhstan (and 3,000kms of dirt) on a bloody scooter (Burgman 650), fer christ's sake.

No, the BMWs were indisputably considered by all the "experts" as THE bike to tour internationally on, and the four froggies I met in Tamanrasset laughed at me when they saw my RD (incidentally they were sponsored by one of the French bike mags). The laughing soon dissipated, however, when we compared notes in Niger (and subsequently crossed paths again in the CAR, Kenya and Zambia).

Now if we really want to get stuck into BMW let's look at the spoked alloy wheel problems they had in the 70s and are still having now. Whatever you do folks, if you ride a BMW make sure you have mag wheels if you plan to tackle any decent off road routes (or else bring along an unlimited supply of spokes).

Garry from Oz.
__________________
Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

Last edited by farqhuar; 12 Nov 2008 at 07:22.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12 Nov 2008
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
It’s was not a HPN-related problem, check reply 73 (page 4).

Edit: Next post will be from Mollydog....
Thanks Alibaba I missed that post .
However further reading indicates that the problem is not really cured as it still has a tendency to happen at higher speeds with other tyres .

It seems rather a shame to spend so much time ,money and effort on a bike that ,although beautiful and full of character ,has an inherent handling fault .
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 12 Nov 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Town / South Africa
Posts: 207
For some of you that seem to be reading this forum with already preconceived ideas of what the outcome should be, it is meaningless to even try and explain something as you will inadvertently pull my words out of context and make your own statements in any case.
For the rest I can just say do not be lazy and read everything twice before you comment on it.
As far as this thread is concerned I merely made a comparison between bikes being used in ways they were not intended to. The Dakar at the start of this thread was used hard on roads with rough surfaces and possibly loose stones etc. The result was the forks failed.
HPN fit forks to their bikes to cope with this type of road conditions and even worse. The result is that the bikes are not the best doing high speeds on highways especially when you combine it with a off road tire like the Desert and overload the bike with luggage. I recommended that we fit more road bias tyres like the T63's or TKC80's but Philip insisted on the Michelin Deserts. Delays from HPN for parts gave me little time to test the bike after it was completed and Philip did not want to postpone his departure date. Our conclusion was that most of the roads north of Namibia will not allow you to travel at speeds of more than 110km/h and the bike was exceptionally stable and comfortable at these speeds especially in really difficult road conditions. The recommendation was that speeds should stay below the 130km/h mark.
As far as the persistent head-shaking is concerned after fitting the TKC's, I can say this; riding a 1989 R80GS for a few months earlier this year it also tend to be flopping around like a leave at speeds over 120km/h. This is not that uncommon when riding with bikes with tall suspensions especially fitted with the high off road type mudguards in front.

Last edited by gsworkshop; 13 Nov 2008 at 10:22.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 12 Nov 2008
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
For some of you fools that seem to be reading this forum ...
Please be polite or you'll be banned.

Thanks
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12 Nov 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Town / South Africa
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Please be polite or you'll be banned.

Thanks
Chris
If no one is guilty of making unclaimed or insulting statements based on what I have wrote here or on other forums then I guess there is no fools on this forum, and nobody should feel insulted by my statement.

From Dustdevil aka gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12 Nov 2008
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
If no one is guilty of making unclaimed or insulting statements based on what I have wrote here or on other forums then I guess there is no fools on this forum, and nobody should feel insulted by my statement.

From Dustdevil aka gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar.
Hi gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar aka Dustdevil
If you have a problem with other people's posts, please report them. A moderator will look at them and deal with accordingly.

I happened upon your comment and had a problem with it. So I dealt with it.

If you don't like me having a problem with you calling others "fools", why not go an insult people somewhere else.

Have a nice day,
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 13 Nov 2008
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
.....tells the dumb ass...


....This guy is a fool....
Patrick
We discussed via PM our differing opinions on what are acceptable/unacceptable references towards other HUBB users. My opinion is that the above are not acceptable.


From a personal angle I worry about calling others names which belittle them. IMHO, it implies that if others are fools/dumb asses, I am the expert. It's a dangerous strategy to claim to know everything. It's easy to end up with egg on your face. In my younger years many people described me as (an) arrogant (sh*t). I now try to be a little more humble.

Later. Am off to ride my bike.
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 13 Nov 2008
mollydog's Avatar
R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Patrick
We discussed via PM our differing opinions on what are acceptable/unacceptable references towards other HUBB users. My opinion is that the above are not acceptable.
Chris
my offending post has been edited and made clean!

Patrick
__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Reply With Quote
Reply


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/which-bike/has-anybody-ever-seen-failure-38514
Posted By For Type Date
The Chain Gang • View topic - Catastrophic F650GS Fork Failure This thread Refback 4 Feb 2009 17:06
Pohjolan Kurapyöräilijät • katso viestiketjua - HUOM! Alkumallien BMW F650GS / Dakar omistajat This thread Refback 1 Jan 2009 11:27
Interesting BMW fact I heard - PNW Riders This thread Refback 1 Jan 2009 04:57
Pohjolan Kurapyöräilijät • katso viestiketjua - HUOM! Alkumallien BMW F650GS / Dakar omistajat This thread Refback 11 Dec 2008 07:50
f650gs Any good? - BMRider Forums This thread Refback 25 Nov 2008 19:28
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 24 Nov 2008 14:51
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 24 Nov 2008 14:05
Has anybody ever seen a failure like this on an early F650GS or Dakar? from Horizons Unlimited - Traveler's Blog | Motorcycle Stories and Community | FAST3R This thread Refback 12 Nov 2008 05:55
.ORG! - Moottoripyora.org - paikka, jossa motoristit kokoontuvat This thread Refback 5 Nov 2008 14:28
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 4 Nov 2008 14:30

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 3 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BMW Dakar Vs F650GS PimpYoda Which Bike? 130 1 Sep 2008 21:41
What to buy f650gs or dakar ? Francisco Herrera Which Bike? 6 16 Aug 2008 09:30
F650GS/Dakar-what's likely to fall apart? llanelli BMW Tech 5 7 Oct 2003 05:10

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:54.