[QUOTE=AliBaba;212248]I’m not sure how many bikes who have had this problem (eight was mentioned on Adv-rider but I guess it’s more).
Cheap? Well, "Cheap" suspension All about money. So this is up to BMW.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Have there been any similiar reports about Aprilia Pegasos? And where were the components manufactured? This looks like a metallurgical issue.

The old Aprilia-built F650 Strada/Funduro series built in the 90s are not in question here. In the year 2000, BMW brought the F650 'in house', more or less redesigning it from scratch to avoid having to pay royalties to the Italians, and presumably to avoid any N.I.H. internal politics at the same time. So it's the early F650GS that is at issue, built between 2000 and the end of 2002 when the new forks were fitted to every bike.

There is no such thing as ‘off the shelf’ I reckon. The problems people are having with fitting aftermarket forks show that. The part in question would be custom for the bike and there would have been some design component in there I reckon. If we design infrastructure of the architect’s plans we ask for all relevant parameters to design the infrastructure to the relevant standards set out by a body charged with setting these standards. In Australia this would be AS. These are based on lab test, etc.
Therefore I just can’t accept that a company in the automotive industry would just walk into a Showa shop and ask for ‘that one’.
In the case that I’m imagining Showa would prepare the design which is supplemented by a spec listing out all sorts of engineering parameters that they used and as mentioned before this (when agreed by both parties) becomes the reference document for any contractual issues. If there is anything missed in the spec (which happens more that you think) the lawyers will have a field day with it and create a tug of war.
This could even be the case considering the inaction and revised forks (which supports my feeling that it’s not an ‘off the shelf’ product). Even for this Showa would have been involved because this would void the old spec supplied by Showa putting all responsibility on BMW. Not a position you would want to be in if you initially contacted another consultant/company to do engineering for you.

I don’t think you can count out Showa this easily. Yes BMW has end responsibility to the customer, because it’s their product in the end as they’re selling it to you. If the Millau Viaduct would fall over would you contact Foster Architects who took all the credit for this job and ‘sold it’ to the local government, or the engineers who designed it. Than within that framework you have to dig deeper to find out who’s responsible because the structural guys would look at their parameters, which are based on the civil guys who in turn received information from the geotechnical guys. It’s not that simple.

What about the factory who actually built it? Would that be a Showa factory or maybe someone else? Who knows. Could be a production issue as suggested.

As for saying outright BMW is crap is just crap on it’s own. I’m not a BMW fan, but am a fan of any company who thinks outside the box. Evidently shown by the new concept of the G450. Similarly KTM (upcoming electric bikes and 2-wheel-drive) and Yamaha (Supertrail, can’t wait for a 450) with their inspiring concepts. My first bike was a 3AJ Tenere, rebuilt by Dave Lambeth, which we took through some of the roughest terrain Asia has to offer. It had it’s own problems which if it would have been a BMW, people would have burned Yamaha for it. But because it’s not, you don’t hear anything about it, and the design flaw is still there.
Personally I think that people hate the culture of arrogance surrounding BMW which causes all this, but that is just a psychoanalytical observation.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

I've gained the impression that a lot of the internal componentry (damper rods, pistons, fork caps etc etc) are 'bog standard Showa', and as such interchangeable with other Showa forks of the same diameter (early CBR600F is mentioned) although presumable the sizes of the apertures etc will be tuned for the application. However, I don't think the slider castings could be any kind of 'bog standard', they seem to be unique to the F650GS and Dakar.

Absolutely. The F650 fork will have started life as something similar from a slighty earlier bike. You start with what the customer asks, put a current design on the CAD station and redraw the bits that don't work.

One thing the F650 fork casting has that no other design in the 650 class had at the time was the hole for the ABS sensor. The lower leg is therefore BMW specific while the rest will probably be components from a parts library.

Andy

On another forum someone posted a link to a story about a fork that had broken when the bike was used on a highway in 90 km/h.



The Honda was a -97 model and the mileage was only 17kkm.

Honda in Sweden says that this could not have happen. “It’s as likely as a car brakes in two on the middle” they say and they will not investigate the case further.

So guys, check your forks!!

Source (Swedish):
Motorcykeln föll isär - Piteåpar nära döden - - Nyheter - Piteå-Tidningen -
"Olyckan helt osannolik" - - Nyheter - Piteå-Tidningen -

So tell me what is new on the G450? I mean really, truly new? Do tell!

Do you think Rotax pioneered quick revving, high performance four strokes? They did not, but I can tell you who did if you're interested. Think Italian.

And the Chassis? Look familiar? The linkless set up and zero slack chain and pivot point system are not new either and IMO has yet to prove itself as effective over the long term.

The G450's have done well mostly because BMW's have paid some of the best guys in the world a whole lot of money to win on them. Lets see how the average rider does ... and lets see how the maintenance/longevity will be compared to competition.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

..... It annoys me they have such a hardened, snobby following, and for what??? Reliability....maybe years ago, but never any better that the japs at 2/3 of the price. Build quality.... same goes. Christ, if they're that good, why are they putting Rotax lumps in their smaller bikes. Probably because Rotax are actually better. Its amazing how people can follow a ' Badge '.
I am by my own admission, a Honda nut, and for good reason. I've had 5 of the things, and never has any so much as thought about playing up, and I've not been easy on them either.
I've never been to any bike factory, but as far as i'm aware, honda's engine test is Flat Out running on a bench, for 24 hours. Engine stripped, any signs of wear and they re-design it.
I doubt any BMW would withstand that abuse, at least not the newer ones.

I think that there will be much more knowledge about the G450X in US next year, when David Knight have got rid of the orange color of his homepage and replaced it with white and blue

Yes, it’s a shame they pay their drivers. It would have been more fair if only Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Husaberg and KTM was allowed to do this

It would be interesting to see, but it will take some time. Right now there is only 2 G450X in this country, and literally thousands KTMs.

Personally I expect problems…. They are entering a scene they haven’t been for decades with a brand new bike with lots of new solutions.
I would also guess that a lot of the bikes will be used for street-use, I believe it’s the most powerful bike in this league you can legally use on the road.


On the other hand I’m looking for a bike in this segment (beside my BMW and Yamaha) and I might end up with a KTM.

Enduro is not what it used to be: http://www.historischesarchiv.bmw.de...oldergroup=irc

I did not mean that this have happened eight times worldwide, sadly no one know how many times it has happened. Personally I am not a fan of the old 650GS, but this should not happen with any bike.

Yes, as I said “ Anyway it’s not interesting that Showa made the forks, BMW has the responsibility for the final product.
It looks like you liked Chris story of broken shocks, it wouldn’t surprise me if they were Showa. But again, that’s BMWs responsibility.

Well, in this thread alone there is 7-10 broken Showa forks and BMW have probably a history of thousands broken shocks from Showa. I’m not sure if WP made the triple clamps for KTM back in 2002 but they broke. KTM handled it pretty good!

I agree, but on the other hand 95% (at least) of the forks are still working and a lot of them have been beaten pretty badly. Many of the forks (or most according to Adv-rider) have broken at low mileage.
For me this looks like a production problem, the quality differs from one shock to the next. Agree?
But the bike is BMW badge, and BMW should be blamed.

That’s an interesting statement! So you say that Showa sell good product to the big four and crap products to BMW? Well, it would explain why I think Showa is crap and you like them. :confused1: