Which bike ?

[ninja_10r2004]

I'm in the process of finding a new bike.

And I'm going on the used market (but not too used), here in Canada and Quebec, usually the used bikes are good deal because the season are short. AWY.

So I'm looking at the Tiger 800 xc, V Strom, F800 Bmw (don't know the acronym for the trail one, KTM of some sort, Honda (nothing except the new africa twin, but seem a little diasapointing bike ?).

Sure I will do trail with it but road too and on the road two persons will be on the bike (big GS, think it's too big ?).

I'm 5 feet 10 inches tall, 210 pounds, not fat but big....58 years old, 35 years of road experience but less then one year on trail.



Oh and yesss my dream are to have enough time to go to South America, long time dream.

So know help a poor felow here..

[greenmanalishi]

So you need something light enough to be able to pick up and throw around and big and powerful enough to carry two people and luggage? Oh and easy to maintain! I have never found the holy grail of bikes so I have two an NX650 which feels like a pizza bike and takes me anywhere and the Kawasaki for two up travel on strictly tarmac. For me at least the question should be can you pick up any of those bikes you mentioned with luggage on them?

I got rid of my Transalp which was similar to the V strom because when I dropped it I could feel a hernia coming on when I tried to get it upright again. I am ever so slightly older than you and roughly the same size.

Working on them is also something to consider. Do yo have to take loads of plastic off to get to the plugs or air filter, does the tank have to come off to get to the plugs if you want to change them. The tank on the tiger is a real pain to remove and it took two of us to remove my mates, one to hold it up and the other to disconnect the electrical gubbins which you cant get to with the tank siting on the frame.

Just a few things for you to perhaps consider? Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[Crazy Dave]

Im with greenmanalishi on this one. Horses for courses.
Choose the right tool for the job or choose your compromise based on what makes you most happy.

I had a Xt600e single at 156Kg It would go just about anywhere 1up and carry enough gear. Off road unloaded it was OK but not ideal and motorway was a chore after a couple of hours.

Now I have a 1200 240Kg bike for road touring two up with luggage but also want to get a 250 for around town, green lanes and lightweight budget trips where time is not a factor.

But If I had to choose a RTW bike It would be a 600 middleweight.
Air cooled, Carbs, Single cylinder Jap bike.
I'd still have my XT if I thought I'd ever get the chance to go RTW

Best of luck and happy travels,
Dave.

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by ninja_10r2004

So I'm looking at the Tiger 800 xc, V Strom, F800 Bmw (don't know the acronym for the trail one, KTM of some sort, Honda (nothing except the new africa twin, but seem a little diasapointing bike ?).

Sure I will do trail with it but road too and on the road two persons will be on the bike (big GS, think it's too big ?).

All good bikes but NONE are really trail bikes. Yes, mild dirt and gravel roads will be fine, but if things get technical (steep, deep sand, muddy, big rocks and deep ruts) then those bikes could be in trouble ... especially if you are riding Two Up. At your size you can lift any of them if you're careful and first remove luggage.

The new Africa Twin (IMO) would probably do best off road in the small group listed, or perhaps a KTM? The best would be the old 950SE.

Combining two up comfort with good off road ability is sort of reaching for the Holy Grail. Lots will depend on YOU and your riding skills ... and the bravery of your pillion!

Best value of your list is the Vstrom. So reliable and so tough. Great two up and room for luggage. With proper tires it's not bad on basic dirt/gravel roads.

[VicMitch]

For mostly paved and dirt roads and eventually a trip to South America, can't beat a V-Strom. Price and reliability make it a better choice than the others you mention, capability are all about the same.

[Snakeboy]

Originally Posted by VicMitch

For mostly paved and dirt roads and eventually a trip to South America, can't beat a V-Strom. Price and reliability make it a better choice than the others you mention, capability are all about the same.

Spot on!

The power of the Tiger is addictive and the BMW has low center of gravity and low first gear so good for slow stuff - but price and reliabilty wise - you cant beat the V-strom.

None of these bikes are good off roaders though - way too big and heavy.

[Squily]

Originally Posted by Snakeboy

None of these bikes are good off roaders though - way too big and heavy.

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact

A lighter, more trail oriented machine will lack 2-up (with luggage) capability. It's all a compromise, but all of these bike are seriously capable offroad (even the Strom) in the hands of a competent rider.

[Squily]

Strom in the sand...



Can be a handful...


But it'll get you wherever your dreams will take you



As with any machine, the biggest constraint it the rider

[Snakeboy]

Originally Posted by Squily

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact

A lighter, more trail oriented machine will lack 2-up (with luggage) capability. It's all a compromise, but all of these bike are seriously capable offroad (even the Strom) in the hands of a competent rider.

Its a matter of fact that a lighter bike are easier to handle when the going gets rough and tough. 150 kilos ARE lighter than 250 kilos.

A bigger bike might handle more luggage better but then again - overloaded are underprepared...

[Squily]

Originally Posted by ninja_10r2004

So I'm looking at the Tiger 800 xc, V Strom, F800 Bmw (don't know the acronym for the trail one, KTM of some sort, Honda (nothing except the new africa twin, but seem a little diasapointing bike ?).

Not sure why you say you are disappointed in the Africa Twin, because it's a more capable off-roader than the other bikes listed. Personal preference or specific application comparison? All those machines are very capable machines and the differences will be in the details/semantics/compromise you are wiling to accept and your intended application.

Tiger: good package, lots of farkles, but if you crash it/heavy drop, you're not going further- like so many machines, if you kill the speedo cluster, you're done for as everything runs through there. crashbars mount onto the engine casing- you drop it, you break it. subframes have a tendency to crack, but can be repaired. 1st gear is too long for trail riding- you spend a lot of time on the clutch.

800GS: good machine, but BMW build quality not upto standard. If you do plenty of kms, you'll spend more on this bike for maintenance items, such as steering-head bearings etc. You'll need to spend some money on the suspension package for two-up with luggage, which can be expensive. Tried and tested machine, but also runs everything through the speedo cluster. I've seen 800GS's stranded because of simple things like harness wires breaking when the bike gets dropped

Strom- road biased - see comments below. Best fuel range of all the bikes listed (on the standard tank).

AT: trail biased. rear suspension will need an upgrade/service rebuild for two-up touring with luggage ($400-1000). parts availability a bit of a problem at the moment, but this will improve over the next year as the model is rolled out.

Originally Posted by VicMitch

For mostly paved and dirt roads and eventually a trip to South America, can't beat a V-Strom. Price and reliability make it a better choice than the others you mention, capability are all about the same.

I assume you are referring the capability on mostly paved roads when you say they are about all the same? But I don't agree in general. The V-strom is the better choice for paved work (tubeless tyres, 19" front wheel etc.), whilst a machine like the Africa Twin is the better for off-road/trail stuff with a 60/40 bias towards dirt.

Also- the V-strom has the least ground clearance off all the machines. That with the other aspects of the purchase package makes it a machine with a limited off-road capability.

[Endurodude]

Originally Posted by Squily

800GS: If you do plenty of kms, you'll spend more on this bike for maintenance items, such as steering-head bearings etc.

If you do enough miles, BMW will replace them free under warranty!

[tmotten]

To me those photos prove they are not as capable. A small bike would ride that, not be man handled or pushed up. Big difference.

But it's whatever you prefer. I wouldn't recommend this at all personally. Particularly to newbies.

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[Squily]

Originally Posted by tmotten

To me those photos prove they are not as capable. A small bike would ride that, not be man handled or pushed up. Big difference.

But it's whatever you prefer. I wouldn't recommend this at all personally. Particularly to newbies.

I agree it can be more difficult on a larger bike offroad. As for the photos- I didn't bother posting pictures of 'smaller' machines being stuck. Just of areas where I ride with big bikes as an example. E.g.

• the picture of the AT stuck in the riverbed with me trying to get it out- there were four bikes on that trip, my AT, an 1150GS and 2 x Dakar 650. We turned around because the Dakar riders were not comfortable with where we're going and the type of terrain they had to traverse. They could not get through on smaller machines. And I got the AT stuck because I misjudged the line, the ditch was too steep and I stalled the bike on the 1st go. Rider error- not bike related.
• The picture of the AT having a rest on the slope - I had a very capable mate riding with me on a 690 enduro (more capable than me). We were trying to find a track/line up the hill and through the breakaways. He quit because it was too hard he was not having fun (on a bike and equipment weighing 60+kg lighter). Unless we were going to physically lift the bikes up over a two meter breakaway, the smaller bikes would not have made much difference.
• the 2016 photo - I led us down the mountain on a washed out track without recce-ing it 1st (my bad). It used to be a one-way down 4x4 track, but recent rains washed it out completely and we ended up walking all the bikes down because it was not possible to ride them. That includes the XT600. We also needed to 'make' some areas where we could get the bikes over and down gullies. A very skilled trails rider would have been able to ride it, but size did not matter on that downhill. That same trip I was blessed enough to see how an experienced rider on a 270+kg Varadero can make the rest of us look like amateurs through sand, gypsum dunes, rocky tracks and more.
• the picture of the track running down the hill with 800GS having a rest - I was on a smaller machine (XR650L). The rider 'lost' the bike because he is a tight arse that didn't fit new tyres before the trip. He had problems with traction and it was not a bike-related problem. There was not one spot where the XR was a definite advantage above the heavier 800GS and for the most part of the trip I could not keep up with my mate when the going got ruff.

So IMO, to make a statement like 'a small bike would ride that' is a bit condescending without you knowing the background behind it, and the exact circumstances. Don't mistake rider error for machine deficiency.

[tmotten]

Ok, I see we have completely different frames of reference here. A 650 might be smaller by definition but to most it still falls within the big bike category. Thankfully too as it wasn't always so. More and more people are realizing that there are small bike options. I actually sold my Dakar 650 for a WRR. Haven't looked back. The thing is fine at 110kph all day (no screen). Been doing long distance adventure riding through the open space of Wyoming riding from Calgary to Denver, ridden single trails through the bush of the sunshine coast hinterland, Qld and recently the desert trails in Baja. No way would I have ridden all that on the Dakar. Walked and ride like your pics, sure. But not ride and loving it. This is what we're referring to.

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