Hello

I'm thinking about a trip to Mongolia next year from the U.K

I would love to do it on a WR250R but can't find a good one for love nor money.

I like the idea of buying something a little more dirt orientated like a 500 or 350 EXC and making it a little more suitable for a long trip by increasing oil capacity etc..

I will be learning to ride off road between now and this time next year also.

Has anyone got any thoughts on a good D/S bike where weight is a huge priority?

Thanks

Maybe. Depends on where you live or where you want to buy your bike.

My alltime favorite is the KTM LC4 400 LSE military. It comes ready to go. Including lugage (take that into account when comparing prices). But it's rare and only really available in Germany on the second hand market.

I like the look of that, if only because I hate KTM orange. Yuck. If I ever got an orange one a respray would be my first mod.

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[ Tim | History - NW Italy/French Rivera, Swiss Alps, Morocco | 2016 - Greece > Albania > Macedonia > Kosovo > Montenegro > Bosnia > Slovenia > Austria ]

The WR250R is a good choice but expensive for a 250. I assume you can't afford a new one? Used ones also rare here in USA. Most are clapped out by the time they show up for sale used.

I would look closely at the Honda CRF250L. Great travel bike. I've no idea if used ones are available in UK. Here, they are priced well new.

Figure about 500 quid minimum to prep for travel on any bike you find.

If you're flush, consider the CCM 450. Around 8K ukp.

If on a serious budget also consider:
Kawi KLX250S (great with a 300cc kit added)
Suzuki DR350 (road legal version)
Suzuki DRZ400E or S (very popular)
Honda XR250 or XR400 (kick start only)
Yamaha XT250

I would avoid any KTM for long distance travel. Unless you are an experienced mechanic and know KTM's well ... and don't mind carrying a complete parts inventory on board. Also, way overpriced $$$$ IMO. Not good value.

BUT ...
I would recommend buying a two stroke KTM for learning off road before you depart. The 200EXC is the perfect novice learner off road bike. Amazing bike, but NOT a travel bike. You're learning curve will go straight up quickly starting on this bike or one similar. LIGHT IS RIGHT! Two Strokes rule off road!

All bikes listed need prep for comfort and luggage carrying ability. 250's are tiny bikes, so a challenge to pack a load onto. IMO, a good seat is primary to handle 12 hour riding days you may encounter heading towards Mongolia.

I've owned the KLX, DRZ400E, DR350 and WR250F (not the R), and for me, none were good LD travel bikes. All great off road of course but unless trail riding, they were limited. Not good all day bikes, slow on fast paved roads. After 20 years on many different dual sports I returned to the trusty Suzuki DR650. (not for sale in UK, but can be found)

Why DR650?
Wide seat fits it, great carrying luggage, simple and light weight (147 kg. dry), decent economy, tough as hell - stone reliable ... easy to ride and easy to work on yourself.

Once set up nicely it's quite handy off road, even fully loaded. NO, not a single track Trials bike or Enduro Dakar bike, but perfect for most rough two track and open ground at speed... and can cruise the motorway comfortably at 75 mph ALL DAY.

65,000 miles on mine. NO PROBLEMS!

Thanks for the advice!

The KTM Military is going to be harder to find than a WRR I think but A lovely looking bike all the same.

Mollydog - Thanks for taking the time to write. I did consider the dr650 but it is also very rare here in the U.K. The only one i can find for sale at the moment is only about £1000 less than a WRR 12 years younger than it, and the DR650 has already done 30k miles.

Since I started my hunt for the WRR then I have narrowly missed out on 3 of them, all by 5 mins! Gutted.
My budget is about 3k and it seems that this will get me a decent low mileage 2009 bike.
New ones aren't available in Europe any more, I think since 2009.

I will have another look into the Honda 250, but i was put off them from reports of an unreliable top end.
That said, you can find information, in forums, that will support any opinion.

I guess it's back to prowling ebay, but at least this time I will have more options to type into the search bar than just WR250R, every 10 mins.

Another thumb up for the Honda Crf 250L. Theres a woman from Wales taking one on a RTW tour now and I think she has done 60 k miles on it without any major problems except from a cracked subframe. But she got ot welded and repaired quite easily I think. Theres also a dutch couple on a RTW tour with crf 250s.
I have ridden Crfs as rentals ceveral times and have around 10 k kms on them and find them great little machines. Have never heard anything about top end problems on them. But of course if you run them like 650 singles speedwise they will have problems for sure.

Crfs will need a bit upgrading as all bikes would for a overland tour and seat is mentioned above. Fuel range is also a problem as the original tank only takes 7,7 liters. It only goes 272,2 kms before your empty - dont ask how I know.... Probably less if you load it up a bit and ride hard.
Luggage options might also be limited.

__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

Hi There Mollydog,

well your the first person I've ever heard describe a DR650 as 'Light Weight'!

I always thought the curb weight was nearer 170kg mark, and having helped a mate to pick theirs up (after it decided to take a nap at the roadside), it sure felt a lot heavier than 147kg.

It's still a great all rounder and I found a brand new one for sale for my mate Doc at Bridge Moto but the others were quickly snapped up.

It's basically a Serow on steroids and would make an idea travel bike.

Me, well I've ordered a CCM GP450S to replace my XT250 Serow, being 5ft 4in (on a good day), with an inside leg of almost 28inch and only having size 6 feet (I should really get my biking boots from Mothercare).

HEY! Big congrats on the CCM! Please chime in ... let us know how you get on!

True enough, the DR650 is not a light weight compared to bikes in 250 class or compared to full spec dirt/race bikes ... but in the realm of other 650 Dual Sport bikes ... it's not bad, IMO.

(NOTE: DR650 is easily lowered using lowering links ... so at 5'4", you would be OK ... I'm 5' 6", no links, no problems)

The 147 kg. (324 lb.) is Suzuki's claimed DRY WEIGHT (as noted in my 1st post) True Curb weight (wet weight) is 166 kg. (367 lb). Measured. So you're not far off.

When you add in bash plate, bark busters, racks et al ... and FULL LUGGAGE ... add in another 10-15 kg. My bike with all the above (and more), 5 US gal. of fuel weighs in at 403 lb. (181 kg.) on certified scale. Compared to most fully loaded travel bikes, this is not too bad in my experience.

Compare curb weights and dry weights with XT's, KLR, XR650L. DR650 compares well. Lighter than KLR and XT, same as the XR650L and heavier than KTM 690. Up against BMW Sertao, GS650 or F650 dual sports ... about a 70 lb. margin in favor of the DR650.

Clearly, the 225 Serow is lighter, but with rather poor suspension, spindly forks and NO power, I would not consider one unless staying strictly to slow city traffic and mild, slow speed off road situations. The Serow is a TOUGH bike but actually heavy for what it is. I've spent a fair bit of time on them. Not my favorite 250, but many love them and have done RTW on them.

The DR650 is more than a Serow on steroids. With big 43mm KYB forks and decent KYB shock, over sized swing arm ... it's not only fast and stable ON and OFF road but nimble and can match some sports bikes on tight, twisty, beat up paved roads. It handles extremely well ... compared to ANY BIKE.
(hyperbole? Try one out)

On highway the DR can comfortably cruise at 75 mph ALL DAY, day after day after day. Smooth and easy. You can't do that easily on a Serow.

Off road a well set up DR650 keeps pace well, even with KTM's and Huskies with a decent pilot riding it. (and with key mods done)

A few Plus points for the DR650:
1. Simple: Air/Oil cooled engine, uses Suzuki's SACS oil cooling system. The engine simply NEVER overheats. (Tested by me in 118F heat in Death Valley)
A. No radiator, no hoses, no water pump to fail.
B. Screw adjust valves can be set in half hour ... they stay in spec well past 4000 mile interval.
C. Carb is simple and accessible. Owner serviceable. Reliable long term.
D. Stellar electrics. Long term reliable.
E. Excellent crash survival. Tested by ME and hundreds of other DR owners. You may snap a lever or scrap a case, but most times ..no damage save your pride.
F. Affordable. Used DR's in USA can be had in $2000 USD to $4000 USD range,
under $6000 USD new. Compare to $10,000 USD KTM 690E.
G. Tough frame and rear sub frame can carry a load off road and NOT crack or bend. You can break it, but hard to do unless way overloaded.
Tested by ME in 65,000 miles, 5 major Baja and Mexico trips, Trips to Moab, Colorado and more.

Basics needed to travel:
1. Better seat (5 choices available)
2. Bark busters
3. HID (or LED) headlight
4. luggage rack for soft panniers
5. Top quality DID X ring chain, spare front sprockets
6. With a budget ... suspension should be upgraded front and rear.
(Anywhere from $500 to $1200 USD for FULL upgrade)

Faults and Downsides:
Low Stator output (just 200 Watts) mitigated by 35W headlight and LED's.

3rd gear has failed on a small percentage of DR650's (about 1.5 %)

Fuel economy could be better. A well set up DR will return 50 miles per US gallon. BMW's get 65 to 70 MPG.

Some bikes wear rear hubb bearings and Cush Drive rubbers harden and need replacing every 10K miles or so. Fresh Cush rubbers keeps driveline SMOOTH as do fresh front sprocket.

Final comment, the DR650 has excellent parts and service support from Pro Cycle in Oregon, USA. FAST shipping of everything world wide. True ONE STOP SHOPPING.

Suzuki DR650 Parts, Accessories, & Performance - ProCycle

Hi Mollydog,

I totally agree that the DR650 has loads going for it and can be made into a great adventure bike.

I'll let you know how I get on with the CCM, I can't wait to get my mitts on it.

You mean Steph Jevous lol

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__________________
We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

Well if the Honda CRF250l is good enough for Austin Vince and Lois Price plus a few others then yeh have a look see there is a guy on a DR at the mo beenbon the RTW for 3 years again speaks for it self.
Down side cost

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__________________
We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

Who it is and the name of the person was not the point of my story. The bike brand and model was.....

__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

Yes gathered that was just letting you know, so if someone wanted to look her up they could.

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__________________
We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

I didn't know Austin and Lois were riding Honda CRF250L's. Can you post a link to something about this?

Last I checked in with them they were riding the USA in a side car hack.
Before that Lois rode a XT250 Yamaha around Africa (White Knuckles book) and an XT225 Serow from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego ... Lois on the Loose book (with about 50 breakdowns along the way!).

And of course most know about Austins' RTW travels and the two films produced riding Suzuki DR350's.
Austin also did a Morocco/Africa trip ... I believe aboard a DRZ400 Suzuki.

If they've switched to Honda, I can understand why. So far the CRF250L is proving to be tough and reliable over the long term. This Thai made bike seems to be a good one.

PS: Dozens of riders on DR650's have done RTW ... but mostly S. America, where at present at least 5 DR's are on the road down there. Some DR's in Africa too now. All doing pretty well aside from those geniuses who do ill advised modifications and think they know more than Suzuki do.

Mollydog on FB austin and lois posted i have the photo but dont know how to add on here alsi have a link for a coupple doing rtw on the same bikes for over 12 months now

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__________________
We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.