I am researching good bikes for a family trip RTW (a couple with two small kids). For some time I've been thinking about a Ural with a sidecar.

However, I've not found much info yet on any others who has done RTWs on the newer 750 cc Urals, and many when they talk about Urals don't distinguish between the older 650 and the newer 750. Also, many when discussing the performance attributes of the Ural, like top speed, hardly ever mention other conditions such as how heavily loaded it was, how it was performing up hill or in head wind or at altitude...

If I was to draw a conclusion from all the hundreds of comments/opinions that flourish the internet about the 650, it is that they are extremely unreliable, has poor performance, poor top speed, poor handling both off road and on tarmac, poor comfort, and just about extremely poor everything - in short they have nothing going for them but nostalgia. I am nostalgic guy myself, riding classic Vespa scooters, but for an RTW with kids, nostalgia takes the back seat.

Although high speed, great handling either off-road and on-road, long service intervals, or Japanese reliability, are not great concerns of mine, I do set minimal standards that are higher than what the 650 seem to be able to offer in any of these areas. I therefore want to look more into what the 750 has to offer. Problem is though, that I have not found any blogs etc from people who has actually done RTW's on these bikes. Also, most of the comments i find don't distinguish between the 650 and the 750 or the conditions they were used, making it utterly impossible to make an educated decision.

I've spent my share of time crawling this forum and advrider.com but i am non the wiser still. Advrider.com I had to give up completely as there was just too much nonsense noise to cut through deriving from all the pouting, bashing, trolling, the touchy-feely posters that had their feelings hurt from a previous post discussing Urals, etc. It just made me frustrated having to sift through all the crap. I like it better here at horizonsunlimited.com

Therefore, if anyone has anything to share, opinionated or not, hearsay or own experience, links or pointers, it will all be appreciated.

In particular, some of the things i want to know are:

• Service intervals of the 750 cc and what we really mean by service - are we talking about an oil change or jtighetening every spoke and fastener every 10.000 km?
• Reliability - what are probable issues, and how probable are they and how easy can they be resolved - also in comparison to the 650
• User experiences on long adventures, including reccomendations
• Performance - and in particular what the top speeds will be for a fully loaded Ural (Rider, a child, spare fuel, tools, luggage, and all the typical stuff that one brings along on an RTW), both up hill, at altitude and in head wind. If i can do 90 km/h uphill with all my stuff onboard, then this is ok. If we are talking 70 km/h than it is a definite no-go
• And, does its rideability crush the confidence of a nervous wife??
• Other things I need to keep in mind

Also, if there are other great options out there that will not require me to rob a bank, please share

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Concerning long time RTW travel on Ural rigs, Hubert Kriegel is the guy to read about.

For good info on Urals and Dnepr in general, check out Soviet Steeds.

...gosh, I miss my rig

If I were to do a RTW trip by myself on a rig, I'd take a 2009 or newer Ural out of the box and go. If I wanted to take the family along, I'd get a BMW rig made up from any reputable rig manufacturer, IMHO

__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"

I have a 2006 Patrol and took it to some remote places such as Labrador, James Bay etc...
I'm not sure about the 2 kids, the Ural is rated for 3 people and 4, even with the modification of the sidecar to make 2 places, would sacrify loading capabilities. I would say, for a family of 4, 1 Ural and 1 motorbike. But this is just my opinion.
Regarding reliability, it is excellent since 2006 and higher (2007 has seen many upgrades but Ural Canada did most of these upgrades to my 2006 model).
However, you need to take a few things into consideration:

- you need to know that you will have to do some maintenance on your Ural by yourself. With a 2500 km between oil change, there is not way you can wait for Ural dealers to take care of that. It is very easy and can be done by left-hand people like me

- traveling pace will the one of the Ural (which is probably better with kids). I have done a few 1000 km + legs on my Ural but the comfort zone is more around 500 km.

- A Ural is not a Honda and you may have to put your hands on it from time to time BUT it is so simple that almost every problem can be fixed by the road-side with the tools provided.

- budget the tires. Especially the pusher. I made a maximum of 4000 km with my knobby tires but of course, you can rotate it with the sidecar one (it takes less than 1 hour to rotate the wheels). With road profile tires, you may be able to extend the pusher to 6000 km.

- Fully loaded with my dog and all the gears, I can cruise at 100 km/h on flat with no wind. Same condition with strong head wind can decrease the speed to 75 km/h. I have 2 windshields which does not help.

- Beware of fuel consumption... I usually do up to 10 liter/100 km and the stock gas tank is 19 liters....

If you take the points above into consideration, I would say go go go...

Here a few pics of my Ural, the conditions I drove it in, and the way is is loaded when I travel:

__________________
Fred, Airhead Lover
BMW R90S 74 & R100GS 93, Ural Patrol 06

+1 Too many Ural guys going round telling you their 45 HP, push rod 1940's technology bike will cruise four up at 70 MPH, 10 hours a day, never breaks down etc. basically because that's what they want to believe. They are colloquially known as foil heads and tend to flame anyone who points out a KLR with a home made chair does the same for longer but doesn't have such nice paint. Palica and Windmill (who I'm sure will be along shortly) will tell you how it is in real life.

There is a French guy who switched from an airhead outfit to a 750 Ural who does have a blog and has been all over the place. I'm afraid the name escapes me. There was a Dutch couple who went RTW on one but again my only recollection is that their list of breakdowns didn't convince me and the fact that they did all the tough bits as a 3x1 after a drive shaft failure really made me think I don't need 3x2 or reverse gear but do want more than 50 HP.

I had a 650 Ural and it was utter, utter, complete, ****y ****. I had a Ural chair fitted to my Bonneville and nothing the UK's premier Ural dealer said to me convinced me that taking a Ural 750 was any better than taking the same amount of cash and fitting a chair to another bike. My Bonneville/Ural cost less, was faster, more efficient and had 6000 mile oil changes. My BMW K outfit does all this and covers more ground again.

However, what I think we need to establish is:

What is your back ground in terms of technology and three wheel experience?
How much have you got to spend? (no need to be specific, lets say A) €700 gets you a 650 Ural or a CB500 with a chair meant for a Jawa, B) €10000 new Ural, newest airhead, 3 year old Bonneville outfit or C) €50000 a 3x2 Duodrive R1200GS ).
When do you need to be ready to go?
Why do you think a Ural might be right for you?

If you like camoflage, hate changing tubes in tyres, can't see yourself pushing an outfit backwards etc. I can see big ticks in Ural boxes. If you're a KTM/GS sort of guy, or someone who can weld your own fitting for a bike of your choice, I think we can suggest alternatives. You can read about the Bonneville here https://sites.google.com/site/threewheelbonnie/Home and there are links to the Brick outfit and other stuff which might be alternatives for you.

Andy

Wow, a lot of great replies.

I was considering bringing two Urals. There are a few reasons why I am considering a Ural:

• As far as I know, getting a bike registered with a chair in Norway means that you can only use it with a chair (new legislature), and, if it is retrofitted it is a pain in the ass to get approved. As the Ural already comes with a sidecar, I'm thinking this will be easier and cheaper
• All the taxes in Norway makes bikes very expensive in Norway. I.e. a brand New BMW f800gs will set you back approximately € 20.000,-. Labor costs are high, and I'm pretty sure that experts that fit side cars are far between - if any in this tiny country - which would mean that retrofitting a chair would cost a lot of money. Another brand of bike, with a side car, could therefore cost a lot of dough. The taxes are based on weight and power, and the Ural would new cost almost as much as a BMW f800gs (insane, I know)
• The Ural does evoke some feelings, though these feelings are less important than having a good ride. If the bike is semi ok in its handling, performance, and reliability - then it is an option. From the comments so far, it seems as it is
• The 2wd exited me at first, but is now less important as I have found it is extremely seldom useful and not really used - it is a hype as far as I have come to understand (please correct me if I am wrong)
• After having seen youtube videoes with it flying offroad, it made my heart thump - but after reading revies, I have found that it really sucks offroad when travelling at slow speeds - you really have to gun it and hope for the best (correct me if I am wrong). As such, the offroad capabilities don't appeal to me much anymore.
• Travelling fast does not concern me, though I would like to be able to keep it above 90 kmh in head wind and up hill.

I really have not decided upon a budget yet, but a 1200GS would be too expensive (currently € 30.000 brand new in Norway). I was thinking more in the lines of an F650GS Dakar with a chair, but have no idea if this would be superior to the Ural, and if so, to what degree. The f800gs appealed to me until I read all the common problems a lot of riders have with these - hopefully these will be corrected by the time I would be ready to buy one.

As for when? Maybe never? There are a lot of things that need to happen for something like this to come true. Ideally i was hoping it would happen when the kids were six and eight yrs old, which would mean four and a half years from now. In other words, it is very early...

I would be buying used, ideally a bike that is three to five years old with not too much mileage on them, which means that i can look at bikes which are new now.

As for experience with a side car - I can't really say I have any. I have a 1962 Vespa with a side car which is like riding a wheelbarrow - maybe more so as it is not set up correctly (I only use it on typical parade days and special events). My wife has very little riding experience at all, and no experience with a sidecar.

Turning a wrench does not frighten me. I'm currently restoring a few scooters. I don't know what i am doing, but somehow they come together bit by bit. But, that does not mean I think it is ok to break down in a bad spot with antsy and grumpy kids and wife. Changing oil, cables, tires, spark plugs, etc are all quick fixes, but seized bearings, broken oil seals, etc is something which should not be a monthly event, (and that is between two bikes).

Anyone have an idea how much it would cost to retrofit a chair to your bike in your country? Please let me know what country and what bike... or other examples.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

I would say the strength of the Ural is that you can drop down to very low speed in 2wd and it will usually keep going, but I'm not sure if this is important for RTW.

Check out the last half of this video: YouTube - uralmania's Channel

If you can wait a bit there is usually a Ural-meeting at Svullrya in August/September where you can see what the bikes are capable off doing. It's alts a possibility to drink loads of Vodka in a "different" setting.

You are not allowed to remove the chair because the Ural doesn't fulfill the needs for registration without a chair, the rules are more strict for motorbikes. If you go for a 650 you are allowed to remove the chair.

If it can help, here is my feeling about the 2wd...

You will not drive in 2WD in normal conditions or slippery road. In the past 4 years, I have use the 2WD maybe 10 times.... BUT:

A Ural weights 350 kg by itself and probably close to 400/450 loaded. Every time I have used the 2WD, if I would not have it, it would have been a pain to remove my Ural from where it was... Ex: you stop on road side for camping. It rains during the night and you realise that your sidecar sits in the middle of mud swomp and you need to make 50 meters to reach the road. In this type of situation, no 2WD means you need a towing or are in big trouble without help. With 2WD, you start your Ural, flip a lever, and leave. It happened to me several time.

Another great tool of the Ural is the reverse. It is actually a good complement to 2WD. Again, it saved my ride in several occasion and unlike 2WD, I use the reverse a lot and during every ride.

Now, a BMW F650GS (single or twin) will be superior to a Ural in every aspect: fuel consumption, handling, braking, reliability (we could discuss this one), service interval, cruising speed, availability of parts etc... So it is difficult or impossible to compare a Ural to any modern bike (except maybe the Royal Enfield ).

But the Ural is the proof that obsolete technology can drive you where modern one can't. I'm not telling the Ural is the best bike on earth to make a RTW trip. But I'm telling you it can do it without a problem if you accept the bike pace. And this is probably the most homogeneous sidecar (meant is does accelerate as it brakes, as it handles: poorly, but comfortably.

Good luck with your project.

__________________
Fred, Airhead Lover
BMW R90S 74 & R100GS 93, Ural Patrol 06

The post above is the most level headed thing about Urals I've read in a long time. If I had a hat on I'd take it off to you Sir.

How does the law stand with regards to a complete outfit bought say in Germany and ridden home? Given four years, something right is bound to pop up on E-bay.de even if not in Norway. Personally I don't believe an outfit needs to be as off road styled as a solo bike. My K-outfit will go pretty much anywhere we are allowed in the UK by the simple virtue of having the same wheel track as a Toyota truck, a shock about an inch longer than standard and leading link forks set at a slighly different angle. I took the Bonneville on similar roads simply by running knobblie tyres. With two adults to pull/push and a little care you can manage.

I'd be looking for a tough old road bike, already set up as an outfit to fine tune into RTW spec. For me it would be BM Bricks and Airheads, Guzzi's, Suzuki Bandits Etc.

If the Ural does win on balance (The ones I've ridden behind don't do 90 KPH regardless, but this is based on less than 50 miles, so ignore), I'd get it ASAP. There is still a big run in period and you need to get the feel of life in the 1940's pace and maintenance wise before a big trip IMHO. I'd go make myself known to your nearest dealer and other Uralists now. The dealer I think is very important, the people who sold me my 650 were idiots, David Angel at F2 is knowledgable and honest to the point where we both argree a Ural isn't right for me.

Your Scooter chair experience BTW should be very handy. At least you know that shopping trolley feeling on the turns towards the chair and won't feel your new outfit is actually trying to kill you!

Andy

they completed the trip from Moskow to Tasmania about 6 months ago happily as seen in the photo with a break at our club for some repairings.

I will inform Neil to contact you.

wish you all the best.

__________________
Mehmet Zeki Avar
''Borderlines divide countries,HU friendship finds a way to reunited"
https://www.facebook.com/mehmet.avar.12?ref=tn_tnmn

As I am thinking of doing a similar trip next year do you have an e-mail address for the Moskpw to Tasmania lads so that I can make contact with them??

I have a 2007 2WD Sportman, that I bought with a view to travelling, firstly to Siberia and then, who knows. There is my wife and our two dogs, hence why I chose a sidecar.

I have to agree with a lot of what has been said.

My bike has only had one failure/problem that was not user induced: a hall sensor failure. Cheap to fix, but left me stranded. All other problems were down to me abusing the bike...

What I like:
It is a fun, robust bike. The new 750s are way better, reliability-wise than the 650s. It handles fine and has served me through out the Estonian winter riding in -20c at times. In all, I am glad I have it.

What I don't like:
Fuel consumption. I have never acheived better than 45 MPG (imp), but more typical is 35 MPG. From an environmental and practical range point of view, this disappoints me.
Service intervals: Valves, carb balance and all oils and filters every 2500KM (although I do it every 2000KM). This can means that you're doing a service every 10 days, if you are doing big miles!!
In off-roading, it handles firm ground fine, taking it all on the chin. In soft terrain, however, the heavy weight and narrow tyres, make getting stuck easier than I'd like. Decent Dual Sport tyres help.

Day-to-day realities.
Expect to cruise at about 45-50mph. Higher than that and the handling is less relaxed, and harder work, but when travelling, as Grant says, when you go slow, you see more.
Agreed on 2WD. Handy to have, but used infrequently. I use my 2WD a bit more than Palica, but after heavy snows it really makes life easier. Luggage capacity is woeful. Don't think that because it has a boot, your storage needs are sorted. The boot is about 1.5 times the size of a decent pannier. You will need to think about how you'll carry all your stuff. That could be the problem on any rig, though

ADvantages of a Ural are that, if you get a newer one (2007 or newer), your rig is already built. If you decide to build your own, you can incorporate your wants into the design, such as leaving space for the pannierson the bike.

Travelling by sidecar is a really enjoyalbe affair. Doing so by Ural is no less so, IMO, but is not necessarily the best option out there. However, they can do a lot as Hubert Kriegel's exploits can confirm, just don't set yourself unrealistic/demanding timelines.

Enjoy!

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

I have grown in a city in Turkiye where Urals used as a hired cargo carrier
It is a hilly city and I have seen a big number of Urals with side cars climbing up hills with carrying lots of thing you can imagine and I am always impressed with its capability of carrying or climbing.

I heard from many people who says it is easy to fix, make maintenance and reliable. Of course they don't make RTW only using for earning money.

And I agree with mileage.

I personally driven an Ural which we had in our family but had problem with when changing the gears and I am not impressed riding it after riding my GS

Hope this helps

__________________
"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "

@ Wheelie, hope this isn't seen as a thread hijack :-s

@ Threewheelbonnie: I have been reading through your site because I may have to reconsider my riding. Until now I have ridden two wheels only, although I went in a chair and as pillion on an outfit as a very small child, and have slowly been preparing an older F650 for a RTW. I hear what you say about an outfit not being a wheelchair-form of biking, however, I have recently been diagnosed with a condition which affects my sense of balance and has at times stopped me from riding. Giving up my RTW plans entirely is not something I even want to consider, let alone accept, so whilst waiting for further medical testing, I am trying to sort through what options I might still have if I am unsafe on 2 wheels (due to balance issues).

Tbh, I cannot afford the £10k for a new Ural outfit, no matter how retro they look, and I couldn't cope with the unreliability of the war-years M20 outfit that my Dad took us all over the South West in back in the early 60s, so ...

I was surprised that you have quoted the possibility of a CB500 outfit for about £700, and even more surprised that the CB500 would even be considered for an outfit.

I like the CB500 as a solo machine, despite what anyone else thinks, so, would it be effective in an outfit? and what sort of sidecar might work with it?

I wouldn't consider this a thread hijack, it's roughly on the same subject, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Things I'd consider in an outfit:

Power: I've ridden a 20 HP MZ/Velorex and while great fun, the chap who owns it can't use the M-62 on windy days as 40 mph with a truck inches away isn't remorely fun. A Ural with a much heavier chair is 40 HP and still slows down for hills in the wind. The Thumper Club guys have put Velorex and similar light chairs on XBR500's, CB500's and the like. The power isn't stunning but having followed them across Germany to the Elefant rally, 70 mph all the way, it's easy enough. The Bonneville at 60 HP with a heavy Ural chair was marginally faster, the K100 quicker still and my old R1100R-Meteor stupidly quick.

Frame: Urals are designed for sidecars, the frame is thick and heavy. Traditional frames on XBR's, CB500's, Bonnevilles and the like take clamps and come with centre stand mounts that can be used more easily than trying to knock up a subframe for your K100/Goldwing/Ducati Evo. This isn't perfect but has worked for a lot of people for a long time.

Final drive: You can gear down a chain drive, shafts need enough power and the same size wheels.

The CB500 ticks enough boxes to be practical so long as you don't need to carry a wooden pole TeePee tent, your Great Dane and a keg of real ale to the Arctic Circle in a weekend.

This mythical CB500-Velorex I made up is going to be bought off E-bay and consists of £500 worth of fifteen year old Honda, £150 of non-colour matched ten year old Velorex and a few fittings, possibly bolted together in the right order. It has telescopic forks (links would be stripped off and sold separately for £500), a bike rear tyre that'll be worn out in 5000 miles and a few surprises courtesy of the eight, 15-foot socket extension owning, previous owners. Get this beast sorted yourself and it'll carry three people and a bit of camping gear at speeds that are safe, in pretty much any weather. Give it ten years and it'll eat an engine, or the Velorex fittings will twist and you'll have a bit of work to do, but that's why it was £700 to start with.

This isn't bad IMHO :KAWASAKI ZEPHYR 750 SIDECAR COMBINATION OUTFIT SIDE CAR | eBay UK

For a RTW outfit it's a tough choice but I'd certainly have a go with a CB500 if the chair was light enough and I understood the mecahnics of them. (I don't, hence I picked the 25 year old K100).

Andy

Many thanks