If you are going to be riding on any twin track dirt road then avoid the trike as your front wheel will be in the rough part of the track.The front suspension is called a leading link which basically turns you steering into a power steering setup as a normal front suspension on a sidecar is hard to turn.
In regards to the sidecar itself make sure that it has proper shock absorber suspension as this will be much better off road.Some units come out with rubber torsion bar suspension which is fine in the tar but not real good in the rough stuff.
Leading link front end.


A 1150 GS with Ural chair.


A mate is building his own for outback touring.


Similar to what I want to build for outback touring.


You can even take the mother in law for a ride.


Cheers
Andrew

All the above is good info. Trikes i'd avoid, it's like having a sidecar with no body on both sides, so you while you gain the stability you loose a lot of the carrying ability and all turns are "towards the chair". I followed a narrow Goldwing Trike to the Dragon and corners I'd be blatting through at 40-50, he was having to take at walking pace. He had no more luggage than a normal wing, so while he no doubt had his reasons for wanting something that didn't fall over, it didn't float my boat.

I should perhaps explain this better: A turn away from the chair transfers the weight onto the sidecar, so it's just like a car, too much speed you slide. With practice you can use the slide to your advantage, but at first snap the throttle shut and the chair will help you. A turn away from the sidecar lightens the sidecar wheel. Too fast and your nice stable outfit becomes a bike with a 700 kg pannier on one side . This is known as flying the chair and is huge fun unless you didn't practice and go straight on into the oncoming traffic .

Urals I can understand you avoiding. While they are perfect off road and the reverse gear has huge advanatges I know the 650's had components made of cheese and were assembled by drunken chimps (I threatened to put mine through the showroom window and got my cash back). The 750's are better but how better long term I don't know. The trick with a Ural is to only buy from totally first class experts who've fixed the problems and will support you.

The Ural chair is the most practical about and can be adapted to fit as on the BMW above, my Triumph and just about any bike with a proper frame. Oilhead BMW's get expensive as you need to buy lots to metalwork to add strength and rigidity to the bike. I had an R1100R, but wouldn't go that route again.

Unless you are totally minted, you'll need to ignore some of the advice you will get until you know about your own machine. Leading link forks are will reduce the steering loads, but you don't need them. I'm 5'7"/1.7m and not exactly fit (eat the wrong stuff, drink too much, rather partial to the odd cigar/pipe), but I can handle an 800 kg outfit on sand, mud, snow or the motorway for full days. Likewise, car tyres last longer but can introduce bad handling (my R1100R/Charnwood Meteor did lock to lock tank slappers at 85 mph ). The cost of new rims etc. will buy you a lot of old style bike tyres.

You could join us at SidecarsUK : The UK's Number One Sidecar Group for more info.

Come on, join the dark side, there's just nothing like having the road to yourself on a moonlit night because a bit of snow keeps the road rocket brigade indoors

Andy

Thanks Guys great help, I don't think I will go with the trike. Your comments and the price I have just been given for the conversion as put me off. I'm also thinking of selling the BMW and getting a bonnie. I can get a brand new bonnie straight out the box for the price of selling my 2nd hand BMW. A bit more basic, but at least its new and some how more fitting for a side car. In fact been looking at the 'watsonian-squire side cars and I can get that and the bonnie for the money for my bike. All new gear lucky me, I have turn 40 now maybe its time for the cloth cap flying jacket brigade.

http://www.scarabis.com/Photos/AndyNorway08/1270319.jpg

This vehicle may be a bit rough around the edges, but cost less than a grand!
damn good fun....

__________________
Harley Davidsons,
The most effective way of turning petrol into noise without the side-effect of horsepower

Some trikes are well built and handle better than the same model solo bike in the corners. Plus with the auto tires you can put small truck tires on with snow tread and studs. Northwest Trikes

As said, some bikes are more suitable for sidecar pulling than others. The beauty about Moto Guzzis (Tonti framed) is that they come with sidecar pulling ability sertification (or whatever they call it) from the factory. You don't need any additional frames or bodywork to add a sidecar. I built myself a rig last year, using a 1985 Guzzi 850 T5 and a Watsonian sidecar. I put on a leading link front fork and some stronger rear shocks and hey presto: A great sidecar rig to tour with. I've loaded it up with kids and gear and toured extensively with it. Total cost: 3000 euros (which is ridiculously cheap in Norway). The bike has enough grunt to pull it all very well. I'll add brakes on the sidecar this winter but it's not a necessity: The brakes on the bike has no problem stopping the rig quite effectively. And, more important: This is a rig that works, as opposed to the old Ural heap of s*** I used to have.

Here it is before I "renovated" it last winter (basically adding a Policia windscreen and painting it all black):





I'm planning on converting the T5 into a more offroad-like rig (like the one in the picture under) and put on some offroadish stash on the sidecar to match.



Oh, and these guys offer a very affordable DIY sidecar kit that seems like a very nice option:



GBProjects - Home

__________________
HansP
All you wanted to know
about riding in Norway

Hack'd - The Magazine For and About Sidecarists
Adventure Sidecar
Hog Wild Racing
Sidecar Talk / Internet Sidecar Owners Klub - Yahoo newsgroup
Russian Iron Motorcycle Club
Cossak Owners Club - UK club for Russian motorcycles
Ural Riders Association - UK club for East European motorcycles
Dnepr Owners Group (D.O.G.)
United Sidecar Association
North American Russian Motorcycle Association (NARMA) (not working?)
Worldwide Sidecar Motocross Racing
Ural web ring
A Ural how-to
Ural Parts
Russian Spares - Ural, Dnepr and Izh spare parts, Sputnik sidecars
Pashnit's excellent sidecar links page
Ural Yankee Bob - Parts and accessories for Ural motorcycles
AutoSoviet - Dnepr, Ural and other Soviet motorcycles
Christopher Michael Drumgoole - Chang Jiang rider in Beijing, China
Extreme Motorbike Tours China - Specializing in Chang Jiang motorcycles
W. Darrin Weaver - BMW R71-Chiang Jiang Replicas (Eddy, Texas)
Dan Crossman - Chang Jiang Unlimited
Frank's Classic Sidecars - BMW-powered Chang Jiang conversions (Beijing, China)
Chang Jiang Collective - Chang Jiang community
Rich's Cycle Upholstery - Ural specialist in Virginia
CURD - Canadian Ural/Dnepr Riders Group
Christian Kernbeis - Christian's Dnepr Pages
Dneprland
Dnepr-Guide
Craig Willson - Humblebub - A Russian Passion
John Dreuning's sidecar links page
Gary Smith - Burro Has Three Wheels, Portland, Oregon to Tierra del Fuego, Argentina via Ural

Drop me a private message with an e-mail address if you want pics of the set up on my Bonneville. A useful bit of off the shelf kit is a Watsonian bracket than converts the centre stand mount to a sidecar connection point.

I'm saying nothing about dress sense. I'm currently riding in a Drizabone long coat, Union Jack helmet, Army DR gloves made in 1953 and fake RAF goggles. I look like the tall doppy one in Dastardy and Muttley

Andy

OK. Great advice on here so far. Here are a few more points to consider. Firstly, I was of the same opinin as you initially about Urals. In fact I thought sidecars were crap.

However, having followed 2 sidecars in Argentina down some nasty tracks whilst I struggled with a two-fully loaded 1150GS, I saw what they could do. Then I moved to Estonia with more plans to travel. We want to see Kamchatka, but now we have a dog and I still pretty bad off-road!

So, with the dog, bad roads and nasty winter here an outfit seemed a whole lot better.

Initially I thought about sticking a chair on the R1100GS I also had but when I learnt about what needed to be changed I soon scrapped that idea. It would have cost more than a combo out of the showroom!

What do I have? I bought a secondhand 2007 Ural 2WD Sportman. The only thing sporty is the name, but it is great fun.

OK: points why you should not discount a Ural out-right.

They have been built with a sidecar in mind: the frame, all the bearings, spokes etc take the chair effect into account. Solos with a sidecar bolted on are a compromise as neither unit was designed to go with the other. Especially all the bearings in a solo that are chosen to withstand bike stresses, not the lateral stresses of a side car. Can't say if this is the case with Guzzis and their certification.

They are very solid. They are easy to work on. You plan to go to Mongolia and Russia? That is where they are built and spare parts are everywhere. Not so for a GS, Guzzi, Kwakas... Spares are not so easy, nor are tyres for these other bikes. Do-able, but not "walk to the nearest farm and get that gasket" easy...

Urals have, as standard: reverse gear, 2WD on some models (this is a scream in the loose stuff!!), interchangeable wheels (except the 2007 front) and interchangeable tyres: all the same. You get a spare wheel. Leading link forks as standard (the difference between power steering in a car and none). Integral steering damper for bumpy roads. I can get 4 tyres for it for about €220!

The 2007 Ural is an improvement in mechanical terms over the previous ones:
Brembo front brake
Nippon Denso generator
Domino switch gear
Jap electrics
Germany gearbox and pistons
Italian ignition
Keihin carbs
What looks like a K&N filter
Best tool kit I've ever seen OEM

This should address a great many of the problems they faced before.

What ever way you go I say enjoy you trip. However, before deciding check out Urals on Youtube and see what fun they are!!

Also look here:
The Timeless Ride Hubert Kriegel BMW Motorcycle Raid World Travel Sidecar Adventure Gespann
Jack and Luzimar's 2006 Ural Tourist
www.http://myural.com/index.htm

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

I would echo that comment - the Urals are much improved. The new 750 is capable of something approaching European road speeds too. It is very well suited for RTW travel.

I am currently driving a BMW K100 with an EML sidecar, and considering swapping it for a modern Ural.

Simon

__________________
Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

There have been many conversions of urals to diesel. this makes them a cheap to operate long range vehicle

I would agree that Urals have beeen built by the Hundreds of thousands in russia for years however when one takes 1940 BMW technology and tries to duplicate it with a hammer and sicle ther is a big difference.
The 2006 bike that I was driving yesterday has just had a new engine installed under warranty because all the main bearings were spun at 6000 kms. The bike never went over 100 K and the oil was changed every 1000 k and checked every day.
Yes some of the components have been upgraded but if the motor, the heart of the beast is sub-par then one has to wonder.
The sidecar wheel rim has a huge runout right from the factory and the bearings were found to be very loose as well. In attempting to install the spare onto the sidecar we discovered that the splines on the driveshaft do not mesh with the spare wheel hub. CRAP.

Ain't nothing wrong with a Ural...!!!

__________________
Ride the World!
2007 Ural Gear-Up
1984 BMW R65

I rode outfits for over 30 years, from an A10 Gold Flash BSA with Steib to a Pan European ST100/RX4 with full EZS kit, great fun, but expensive to run and all the disavantages of a bike coupled with all the disadvantages of a car, but fun. I now ride a trike (for the last 6 years), good (but not so much) fun, with all the disadvanteges of a bike coupled with all the disadvantegs of a car. The biggest thing a trike has over a sidecar is that the passenger on the back of the trike sees the same as the rider, the sidecar passenger see NOTHING to the side of the sidecar ('cos the passenger is lower and the bikes in the way). If you can do it on a solo, do it, if not and you are taking a passenger on what is after all a sightseeing trip, go for a trike. Trikes are also far easier to ride because they have a differential, sidecar outfits do not, therfore you have to 'learn' how to ride a sidecar, trikes are much easier and can have good luggage capacity, depends what you get. Whatever you do, enjoy.

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Graham & Elaine

GL1800 Motor Trike 2+2, one here, one there.

http://www.mayflowermcc.co.uk/butlers/

Except, as I understand it, an outfit you can either buy ready made (ural, Chiang Jing) or build yourself at relatively low cost (mounted to a suitable standard bike with a Ural sidecar and mounting kit). A trike needs to be built from scratch: suitable bike, motor, suitable car, transmission etc... It then needs to be registered and found suitable for road use (at least in the UK) by taking it for inspection. All this is very expensive by comparison to buying a secondhand Ural chair and chassis and paying a workshop perhaps £3-500 to mount it.

A sidecar, in the UK, is an accessory, like a topbox!!

Another consideration, is if you go off-road and follow any sort of dirt track, your steering wheel on a trike will always be in the crappy middle section , even if your driven wheels are in the tracks.

As for the view, I got my Ural to allow my girlfriend and I to travel with our dogs. They sit in the chair, modded to suit them, and my girlfriend sits on the pillion seat, so her view of the journey is no worse than mine: other than my lid filling the horizon ahead!!

I agree that the oil change interval on the Ural is prohibitive, but not so bad: I feel that 200 miles a day is as much as I'd like to travel, having learnt that there is a lot to be said for taking one's time on a trip.

The Ural has limitations and I have spent a lot of time and a reasonable sum of money modding mine to suit, but I have no regrets buying it and the 2WD is brilliant!! When we go to Kamchatka, I think it'll be fine!!

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)