The DL dose not have the ground clearince of the other bikes. The rubber that come on the bike standerd is crap off road, its built for dirt roads. The DL is to heavy for any real off road for most us mortals.

But you dint say in your post you are planing to go off road. A bash plate and some time off road will help with ground clearince (as well as new bog bones, new rear shock and droping the frunt tubes). Get some nobbies and you will have enof grab in the dirt. If you realy want a dirt bike then get one. No bike here but maby a KTM 650 rebilt for off road will mach with a true dirt bike.

The road to Rocky Point is paved all the way so its not the road that beat up your frend. The KLR was probly set up in its OME form. Get new road tires, grip puppies, rocker, maby a cruise control, new seat ext. and relax a bit (oh a drugs like motrin) you be fine.

The main problim with Honda and the rest is there people think Americans will only buy bikes over 1000 cc. Forget showing them reports of BMW f650 or zuki DL650 out selling there big bikes.

Theres a big difference in frame design between the 1992 and 1993 models. The former one is very top-heavy, but the latter is still not so bad, it is actually a very well balanced-bike, and definitely feels lighter than its weight would suggest. To be honest, I havent done much offroad with my DL, but in fact I wouldnt be so surprised, if the AT is still better off-road than a DL. It is one of the very few machines in this weight category that I would maybe consider taking to some very bad places (if I wouldnt have a better choice, that is!)

In Finland we have plenty of gravel-roads, in very different condition especially after winter, and for all these the DL is normally an excellent choice. When there is some "road" to speak of, then it can do it no problem. But for anything worse than that, to go on paths or trails, then I think it will show its limitations.

Why Honda have not updated the Africa Twin ever since (except minor tweaks which do not count) is beyond me. The Transalp is seriously old, and Varadero is a streetbike, not really a substitute.

Well so far here is what I see as the 650 twins for dualsport/adventure riding being offered to the US market:

Kawasaki - new Versys $6,899 msrp. just saw it this morning. - 400lbs
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/det...t=introduction

BTW - it looks like they dropped the msrp for the 08 KLR from $6,200 USD to around $5,400. great deal seeing how you can't buy a used Dakar for less.

Suzuki - V-strom - 427lbs

I bow to your experience since you owned the A/T and can compare with your Vstrom. And.... since the Finn's are consistently some of the best off road riders in the world I figure you know your stuff.

I never thought my DL1000 would make it in some of the places I rode in Mexico. But once I got used to riding it off road, I was pleased to see just how well it did. You do have to be careful with ground clearance and deep sand is out of the question. Don't go there...you can never get out.
But overall the Vstorm is extremely TOUGH! It doesn't look it...but it is very
strong and tough as Hell...trust me...I tested it very well!

Example: very slow going, picking my way through a steep up hill boulder field.
Bowling Ball sized rocks and bigger, very steep uphill....the Vstrom just chugged up at 1500 rpm, lugging at 10km to 20km per hour. I thought sure it
would stall....but it did not stall, it just climbed the hill and allowed me to weave back and forth to miss the rocks and pick the best line (tire pressure at 20/22) with very little clutch use. The R12GS and Tiger were slipping clutches the whole way. I hardly touched the clutch, just gentle throttle. Very controlable. Almost like Trials riding a monster.

Example Two: Deep silt. In far reaches off Sierra Madre (south of Copper Canyon) logging area. This type of dirt is very strange to ride in. 1 ft. to 2 ft. deep silt that is just like Flour. Except it's brown. The huge logging trucks and
CATS make it. Horrible destruction of the forest.

You pass through it and it splashes up onto the bike creating a "Wake" like a
boat through water. The silt dirt hides every rock or hole or rut. Once I relaxed and just let the Vstrom find its way....it was no problem and tracked flawlessly through the deep flour.

Example Three: Fire Roads. With pressure lowered the Strom can be flat tracked (Speedway in EU) quite nicely if not conservatively. Add knobbies
and front end security is quite good for a big bike.

I agree. I would not go looking to find technical off road on a Vstrom. But "some road to speak of" is right.

Folks have been predicting an "All New" Africa Twin for years now. Yet Honda continues to mystify everyone in the industry by doing exactly nothing. Their conservatism throughout the model range has hurt sales in some market niches, but they still sell a LOT of bikes.

They make a fortune off the Gold Wing. Also they do well with the small dirt bikes like the XR150 & XR230 at least here in the USA. Dirt bikes and motocrossers sell well and sport bikes of course. But dual sport/adventure bikes basically have been ignored for nearly 20 years. The XR650-L is the only dual sport bike in the range and has not been up dated since it's introduction in 1993. I never considered the Transalp a dual sport bike at all.

And now, Honda have discontinued the XR650R (off road only bike) the King of Baja. The CRF450X and CRF250X are now their only factory bikes entered.

I was hoping a "new" Africa Twin would use the RC51 1000cc V-twin motor. Build a stronger, larger version of the CRF450X Alu. chassis and build in some comfort with more width and a really good seat.

Add top shelf Showa suspension, super strong wheels (tubeless would be best) with only a minimum of additional street ammenities. Have at least 8 inches of ground clearance, with 8 to 10 inches of suspension travel. Gear it low. Use the latest updated F.I. systems, big tank (24 liters or so), wide footpegs, full Titanium exhaust, Aluminum / Titanium everywhere that is possible or practical, like subframes, brackets, bolts. To hell with the cost.
But it must be super strong too.

The RC51 engine is a jewel. Very lightweight, puts out over 100 hp at the rear wheel, tons of torque, reliable and could be de-tuned to be economical with fuel and even more understressed for long life.

Actual dry weight should be around 390 to 410 lbs. Not a motorcrosser but a bike that would be a fantastic RTW bike in my estimation and could handle off road better than any other big bike. Is Honda listening?

Patrick

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Thanks to all for the info and links on the v-strom. It has given me much to consider.

Mollydog - you mentioned that your travel bike would be the DR. Would you take that to Copper Canyon? and Beyond? I've been wanting to go down there for the past 10 years or so. Also a trip down to the tip of Baja and back are also on the list.

I'm thinking of taking a bit of your advice and buying a single, but in a 650, to go out and ride, ride, ride and learn more about two wheeling, crashing, riding etc. I know I could get into a 650 single for a lot less than a v-strom and could buy accessories that could be transfered (e.g. painners, gps, etc). Then in few years, maybe, I could by the twin I really want with a 21 inch front wheel. The reason I say 650 and not something smaller is the trail my friends and I did yesterday. I was in my landcruiser (took two of my 3 kids and dog to let my wife have a relaxing day) with some friends on motorcycles. One on a XR400R and the other on a DR650. We ended up trailing for 100 miles and had lunch at the trailhead to Havasupai. We headed paved roads and Highway 40 home. Anything smaller that a 650 with a good tank would have made the trip impossible. (We had to fuel up the 400R)

One positive of bying a KLR for me would be that two of my friends have them and if/when we take a trip all the parts would be shareable.

Sorry to disappoint, Patrick, but Im 99% street rider, been riding bikes for 14 years now, but I admit I may not really have a clue what the hell Im talking about here..!! There are some Finnish offroad-experts, but Im not one of them.

Probably many with a passion for this kind of bikes will agree that Honda should make a new, more powerful and perhaps even lighter Africa Twin, and they even have the engine basically ready. Sure, developing new models does cost a fortune, but still its an opportunity wasted. A bit like why Suzuki hasnt made a big touring bike like the FJR, based on the Hayabusa. Well, over at internet forums, we always know everything better than the factories themselves, dont we!!

Its good to hear you´ve taken the Vstrom into some tough places, and still rate it high.. I´ll be starting off from Europe to India with it (650) in about 5 weeks time, so I guess soon Im about to find out about its capability, too!

I will come to this from a different angle, Do you plan to ride solo or with a passenger (pillion)?

I had Transalp of 1998, very capable off road as well. Not a desert racer (neither I am) but you can go over dirt roads mountain trails etcc with ease.
But since you are in US you will have difficult time to find one. David who found a good example made a world tour starting from California. Yes his was a 16 year old bike stil held through Europe, Asia and back home.

Africa twin is discontinued even in Europe. The exhaust emission codes killed it.
Great bike to carry lots a load in any terrain even with a low octain fuel. I have friends who travelled to tibet with 15 year and 60.000miles old Africa Twins.
But they are done.. Themanufacturers do not invest on the segment anymore...
(Excepy KTM but that is another story).

I have switched to DL1000 after TA. WHy? I needed a bike to carry long distance long hours, with 2 people and loaded as much as possible. NOw this bike does that greatly. TA was a bit underpowerede for 2 with luggage (whihc is a very personal opinion). DL1000 can also go dirt roads but it depends on the riders capability. You have 90HP at the backwheel. Not like the tA which had almost 50. SO you have to know how manage the beast. (Same applies to most of the 1litre enduros). The choice of tires is crucial here. Original tires and Tourance handle OK on dirt as well. But my third set will be Pirelli MT90 which is knoblier.

Result after 4 years of ownership, great bike with lots of potential. Wİth decent tires you can discover a lot. And the engine after 6500rpm is very very wild. Not too mention is very reliable over all. Starts all of the time.

If I were you I would define as much as possible what do you plan to do with the bike?

Regards

Burak
DL1000, 2003

I've been to Copper Canyon four times, 3 times on bikes, two of those on my
DL1000 Vstrom. CC is mostly light duty dirt roads. There are a few tougher routes heading from Batopilas West to El Fuerte and the coast but none would worry the DR650. A lot depends on some river crossings and time of year one goes. October is best, IMO.

A Vstrom could make two out of the three choices out of the canyon with a good rider on board. NOTE: Much of CC can be done in a car. (or a Jeep!)
But you can get into trouble if you look for it!

A 650 single is a bit big/heavy to start with for technical dirt riding. Best to start on a smaller bike, IMO. An XR250 would be a good choice or any number of other smaller dirt bikes. After 50 hours riding on the 250 you can move up.

A DRZ400S is a good mid range choice. With the right comfort changes and gearing it would do fine on a Copper Canyon trip...or RTW really. You just go a bit slower on the highway. Cruises nicely at 65 mph. A DRZ will be much easier in the dirt sections than either a DR650 or any twin.

But for learning locally in the dirt, get a 250 and go desert riding. For CC travel the DR is ideal. You can do it easy on a twin too, but more technical stuff will put an inexperienced rider on a big twin on their head and destroy their bike. For this reason, a single is a fair compromise between weight and comfort and ease of use.

Patrick

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I dont know if this type of bike is available in US but can i throw this spanner in and see. Its the Yamaha XT660R.

I have been reseaching it for a trip to africa in 2 years time and all feed back about it is generally good. It has bassically the same engine as the old XT600 (i have been told) and will go on for years with general maintenance. It is lighter than the DL and AT but doesnt make as much power. But I have been told it will sit at 80mph all day as long as you fill it up.

As with all the bikes there are some mods needed like bashplate, handguards etc. The only problems i had was the petrol tank was too small, Home do a larger petrol tank but is made from carbon fibre and is around £900. But on the Xt660 forum news has just broke that Acrebis are going to make a larger fuel tank for it by the end of the year. Dont know what size etc but is to be around £250.

For me this hopefully will be the perfect bike for doing my daily commute of around 40-45 miles a day for at least a year, in that time i will kit it out with stuff, take it on tours, do my own maintenance, learn more about the bike and then me and my brother are going off to do africa.

Your quest is to find a two wheeled Bike equivalent of a series 80 Landcruiser?

So its max speed (including off a cliff) should be sub 120kmh, it should be capable of being driven to and then hammered all over a quarry. But would avoid a motoway like the plague.

A bike that you dont actually mind dropping, in facts thats probably its description.

Oh and its also got to carry your best mate and an overnight bag with room for a 375, and lastly when you really open her up, there should be smoke pouring out the rear!

Sounds to me like you need an old Yamaha XL600LMF, but certainly not a new bike.