I think another issue is that there aren't any riding areas. If you want to plan a trip with 90+% dirt routes (not roads) you'll have to start outside of Europe.

Most Europeans don't understand the weight issue largely because of that. Most time is spent on motorways and country lanes. So there isn't a large market for LW bikes. More market for gizmos and features that add weight.

Forget lifting the thing. That's not that much of an issue. Wrestling the thing is a much bigger issue. The limit of control is the mass of the person riding * leverage to do so. Action vs reaction of mass.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

That's a BIG ONE! Parabellum make a good product. Good in cold weather, horrible in
HOT humid conditions in my experience. I had a big Parabellum on my old
R100GS.
Wow! I knew weight differences were around those figures but forgot how MUCH lighter the 950SE was. I too await the Milan MC show to see what Honda brings. I'll read up on the 1050 KTM when I can. Thanks for the link and weight info!

Here's the rundown as I understand it regards what IS or WAS sold in EU.
I mostly know the UK, but may be out of touch, haven't been there in a few years.

The post 1996 DR650SE was NEVER sold in the EU, far as I know. You can find the previous 650 model used. (terrible bike)

The KLR was discontinued in most EU countries ... not sure exactly WHEN it stopped coming in ... but it's been gone about 10 years or so. :confused1: There are a few KLR's around used however.

The Honda XR650L was sold in UK and most of EU for years. Not sure it's status now, I thought it still might be for sale in UK ... but not sure. Also not sure about the rest of EU. But these bikes are around. Ted would know about this.

Molly,

I`m with a 250 as you might know. Over 3,500m I had pretty alarming spluttering issues, kinda felt like engine would die momentarily and then kick back into action, as though someone grabbed the clutch in for a second. Should I take the air filter out or anything else one can do to get more power at altitude? Sorry bit off topic I know!

I did not take the filter out while riding my 125cc bike on dusty roads up to 4800 meters in Bolivia:

http://motorradreisen-suedamerika.de..._bolivien-peru

Just turned the German:Leerlaufgemischregulierschraube in as far as possible. The 800 Euro bike went slow but it kept going. Its better then any BMW.
Some nice first hand reports about the 18,000 Euro 1200GS are just happen here life:

Boulevard of Broken BMW Dreams - ADVrider
Around the World Ed-Venn-ture, the next 800 days - Page 29 - ADVrider

This is typical at high altitude. I don't know your bike ... but if it has a
Pilot fuel screw (usually on bottom of carb) the fuel screw needs to be turned IN (clockwise) to LEAN out the low speed mixture.

If you can ... OPEN UP the Air box. I would leave the air filter ON. But try to remove any thing impeding air entrance into the Carb. On my DR650 I cut a big hole in top of air box to increase air flow.

Some air boxes will have a removable side panel. If you have this ... remove it.

If you can LEAN out the fuel screw (it may be hidden and sealed on your bike) then you will also need to raise up the idle speed. I'm sure you have this adjustment on your bike.

But a 250 is going to suffer at 3500 meters no matter what. But leaning out
pilot fuel adjustment, opening the air box and increasing idle speed will :
1. allow smoother running
2. better fuel economy
3. better starting/idling

MORE AIR is what you need!
Good luck!

so basically you need a CPR on a bike...

Molly,

Cheers! Bike is a Honda 250XR Tornado. I have learnt about a lot of stuff on the bike, but the carb still looks a mystery to me. I`ll have a look for this fuel screw - and good advice about filter, my bike does indeed have a plastic panel so will remove this when I am finally reunited with bike (next week I hope!).

On a side-note, do you think when this sputtering is occurring it is better to gas it or close off the throttle? Better to drop down a gear and rev it or try to slunk along? Does this cause any damage to the engine or other components of the bike? I did a pass from Argentina to Chile and hit terrible headwinds, throttle fully open in second gear and probably doing 30-40kps!!!



Someone told me about getting the jets changed, but wouldn`t that affect performance when you come back to sea-level?

Your carb will be dead simple. Go on the Tornado forums, find out what riders are doing to gain performance. May be some clues there. Most CV carbs like you've got have a Pilot fuel screw. (sometimes mistakenly called
a Fuel/Air screw or Pilot screw). Sometimes the screw is inset under carb and covered with little tin cover. Pick the tin cover off with wall board screw, small screw driver, turn IN all the way until it stops (do NOT force). Count the turns.
It's probably set about 1.5 turns to 2 turns out. Go in to .5 or 1 turn from fully seated. Should make a BIG difference)

sputtering should not cause damage but if it's cutting out then kicking back in hard ... THAT is not good.
(hard on Crank/Rod) I would down shift and let it rev. Try to find the "sweet spot" where it runs best.

If you plan to stay up high for a while then changing the main jet makes sense. Should not be hard on that bike. But you may get away with simply doing the adjustments I outlined earlier. If they are NO HELP (which I doubt) then you will need to re-jet. Go only ONE or TWO jet sizes smaller. You should still keep the air box OPEN at high altitude, it really will make a HUGE difference in overall running, as will Pilot fuel screw adjustment.

With an open air box your air filter may get dirty more quickly. So keep an eye on it if riding in heavy dust. Keep it CLEAN/oiled or risk ruination of your motor.

Good luck! Ride Early AM, avoid head winds.

By the way, when I was in Ecuador and Peru, I went from sea level to 10'000 feet or more 5 times in 25 days. That is really the reason I want fuel injection as rejetting every time you hit a pass would be a drag

I put together a spreadsheet to figure out what I actually wanted my dream bike to be and short answer, it's a 1190 R that weighs 50lbs less for which I'm willing to sacrifice 48 of its 148hp.

weight (dry): 420lbs (950SE comes in at 408lbs)
power: 100hp
torque: 70lb-ft
suspension travel (front/rear): 220mm
ground clearance: 220mm
electronics: Fuel injection AND Bosch's MSC (the ABS that works when leaned over). I think it's one of those innovations that can make a real difference safety wise (regular ABS is basically pointless on a motorcycle).

One of the rumors is that Africa Twin would get the MSC that Bosch makes (and is only on the 1190s so far) as well.

By the way, those numbers very closely match the 950SE so it's not like this isn't doable.

i'm glad that i've stumbled across this thread. i've been hunting for a KLR650 and have recently consider the DL650 XT. but i like the size and weight of the DR. i'm a sport rider, did not grow up on dirt, so it's nice to have less bike to wrangle offroad. the smaller the bike the better. but i wasn't sure how good the DR would be for long days at high speed, looks like a bike that would make the pilot suffer. so this thread is reassuring in that regard. a quick search finds more and better deals used on KLRs; DR owners seem to be a proud lot. i'll keep my eyes peeled, though, maybe i'll get lucky.


that said, i really wish Yamaha USA would have imported the Tenere 660. i do not miss carbs, at all.

Hi Kev,

The DR is not great at highway speeds, but with a decent screen it is a good all rounder and much more capable and fun on the dirt than the Strom, the Strom loses out on weight, ground clearance and suspension as the speed increases and the trails gets rougher.

Less weight and a better front end (after some modifications) with a 21 inch front wheel definitely make a big difference, the KLR is a good bike too, either one will do the job.

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

I was thinking of buying a KLR as they're quite cheap but people always seem to be posting that they've broke down or that bolts/etc have disappeared . Is the build quality not so good or what? I just wonder as I've put nearly 20,000k on a Honda Tornado and not one screw has yet come loose ( fingers crossed) and its seen the worst Bolivia has to offer in terms of bad roads.. I think if I were to buy another bike in Latin America it would be either a DR or a XR 400 Falcon - though the XR 250 has been absolutely solid too!

You can go round and round on bikes. Plenty of riders have done ALL of S. America and more on a KLR ... that said ... you are correct, build quality, IMO, is not great. The basic motor is "OK" but the rest of the bike is wanting,
IMO.

Also, the way the KLR is put together in places is somewhat questionable. It's also quite heavy for a 650 dual sport ... but is weak in certain areas despite being "overbuilt" in other places. It's a truly ancient design and in reality has changed very little since 1986.

But so many guys have dug deep into the KLR and figured out what makes it tick ... they've figured out how to make them better and last. Huge following of owners have been doing this for 20 years.

Still, the KLR650 would never be my first choice as a travel bike. Problem is many travelers buy ONLY on price. Hence, we see dozens of KLR beaters traded among travelers on the road. So, naturally, with unskilled, clueless owners, they break down.

I don't know much about the little Brazilian produced Honda's but by most accounts they are solid bikes. Of course they are overpriced for what they are, but ALL bikes are expensive in S. America ... except for used KLR's from another traveler

The advantage to the 650cc class dual sport bike (XR-L, XT, DR650, KLR) is they are better on the road, carrying a full load, especially higher speed roads, riding all day at 60 to 70 mph. Here they are pretty good if you've got a good seat.

But as you've found out ... your little Honda is perfect on nasty dirt roads on rocks, mud, whatever.

I've learned to handle my 650 pretty well off road ... but if things get truly nasty ... I'm screwed and may have to turn around ... where you will ride on.

The fact is, even street bikes can cope with most roads. NOTICE, roads, not trails. The difference is, off road you're having FUN ... while others may be
miserable.