For information, the 2007/2008 BMW G650x (Challenge/Country/Moto) with the FI twin spark 652cc Rotax motor (and finished the Dakar race with Simon Pavey on board) were built in Italy in the Aprilia factory. Hence in my 2013 RR (in sig below) I refer to it as a RBA (Rebadged Aprilia) to hide the shame of riding a Beemer

In more recent times lots of plastic G-bikes probably do come from the China. Never bothered research these as I think they look hideous, before even contemplating their apparent (or not) lack of robustness.

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I just looked around new 1200GS and cound't believe how thin and delicate its frame tubes are! no wonder it breaks easily, tubes in my honda nc750x are twice as thick!


look GS frame



e.g. nc750x frame




or super tenere frame, it's massive!

[QUOTE]Makes you wonder why they are so heavy then ?

[QUOTE=stevenatleven;496101]got to be engine.

It's not so much FRAMES of BMW twins that break ... it seems to be more the final drives. The pics posted by Mezo pretty much illustrate this.

I have heard of broken sub frames here and there with the big twins but seems most catastrophic failures are final drive related.

And that brings us to weight. BMW have spent MILLIONS of euros in the last 10 years to trim weight from the big GS. They've done well, making the latest R12's lighter and stronger than any GS before. But it's still a heavy bike, even though it rides like a 650!

The R1200GS is lighter weight than the Yamaha Tenere 1200, Guzzi Stelvio,
Aprilia Capo Nord. But the KTM 990/1190 twins are substantially lighter, make more power and usually don't break frames.

Why?

Most of the excess weight on BMW's comes from the Shaft drive system, the trans and the very heavy duty engine. Strong, heavy crank and cases. Luckily BMW finally fired Trans maker Getrag, and now use a lighter, Japanese made trans which is substantially lighter, shifts better and is quieter. Win Win.
But it still is NOT ENOUGH!

KTM somehow does all this with LESS weight, still maintain strength.

But even some BMW chain drive bikes are heavy IE: 800GS P-Twins.
IMO, the 800's are heavier than they should be. Compare engine weight
of the F800's with Yamaha FZ-09 triple (MT-09). The Yam makes more HP, less weight and is a smaller package!
And I'll bet it's reliability is better as well! The F800 series is an OLD Rotax design left over from the 80's.
The Yam triple is ALL new and borrows directly from MotoGP tech.

The SS1000 Sports bikes prove BMW CAN build a lighter bike. Will this mind set of LIGHT IS RIGHT transfer over to the GS line? Dunno?

I've had only three BMWs: A F650 Funduro, a R1150R and a K1200GT (the older one). Except a leaking gasket causing the clutch to slip on the GT, none of them caused me any problems at all. But I didn't jump them in the green lane either. I had to get a Yamaha WR250R to do that with some sort of structural confidence. I've had a bunch of Guzzis, though, and apart from the standard electrical circus on my older ones, I never saw any major issues with them. Otoh, the Tonti frames are unbreakable, so maybe that should be the back bone of my next long distance tool? Very easy to maintain, and even with a shaft drive it's lighter than the GS.

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HansP
All you wanted to know
about riding in Norway

Wow! Is that your Guzzi in the pic?
Nice! That's a cool set up for a Guzzi! I always hoped Guzzi produce a light weight dual sport bike like that ... but they never did.

(I owned a '84 850 Le Mans lll ... wish I never sold it! A collectors item now!)

When you say "Tonti" ... is that Carlo Tonti? Did he design the Guzzi frame?

Alas, it's not my bike, but I'm thinking of converting an SP1000 I have into a bike similar to that one. Also, I agree: If they used the new V7 engine in a light weight set up, at least they could compete in the XT660Z Tenere class.
The Tonti frame is named after its originator Lino Tonti, who joined Moto Guzzi in the late '60s, replacing the father of the V-twin Giulio Cesare Carcano (who also designed the 500 cc V8 in the '50s).

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HansP
All you wanted to know
about riding in Norway