Here is what I am looking for....

• Enough power to carry a pillion and gear
• Able to cruise for long periods at speeds around 110kph
• Something I can buy new or fairly new (Would prefer not to buy something that went out of production a long time ago)
• Something that gets good gas consumption
• Something that performs well offroad

I have plenty of experience touring but always on bikes no other overlander would touch. I've never felt the need for a big bike...I'm not into speed and thrills, I like to take it easy, but also need a bike I can take on the highway when I want to reach the Pyrenees in less that 3 hours.

I was thinking a good dualsport bike, like a Honda CRF450

Or even something a bit bigger like a Suzuki DR650.

The problem is, they dont sell any of these kind of bikes in Spain. Not sure why. But it seems these type of bikes are hard to find in Europe

Any ideas of a bike I can buy in Europe that would fit my needs and I could buy a relatively new model?

in Europe not many choices now thank to EU, maybe next year with yamaha T7 and ktm 790.
Currently all of your list do well xt660z and ktm 690 enduro then a gap and maybe kawasaki versys 650, suzuki v-strom 650, bmw gs 650.

Enduro bikes are not good for pillion rides so ktm 500exc, crf450, wr450 won't fit the bill.

So let me summarize: you're looking for a powerful, yet lightweight and maneuverable bike, in current production, with extraordinary carrying capacity and smooth function both on and off-road. Right? I guess it should also be reasonably affordable, reliable in the long term, and from where you sit its probably necessary that it conform to EU safety and emissions standards.

People have been searching for this very bike, essentially, forever, in the process debating (and sometimes pontificating endlessly over) its absence. Of course it doesn't exist, since your requirements are at odds with each other. Of course the best solution is to make your peace with severe compromises: buy an older bike and manage to keep it running; buy a heavier bike and suffer its unwieldiness and off-road shortcomings; buy a smaller bike and wallow around overloaded with your pillion and all your various gear. You can do better or worse in accommodating to compromise, but you can't find the complete package because it doesn't, and probably won't ever, exist.

That's certainly true for all the bikes mentioned above, including the ones which you can't find in the EU (and the ones which might come into production soon). Make your peace with it and move on, as one does.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Edit to add: I see by your post on a nearby thread that you already know all of the above--why else extoll the virtues of overland travel on a Royal Enfield? It's all about adjusting expectations to the limitations of what exists in the real world, then settling in and enjoying the results. IMHO, of course.

I agree, dual sport or dirt bikes with narrow seats and no way to carry luggage are not going to work well, especially Two Up.

Best bike out there for reasonable cost at the moment, IMO, is the Honda CB500X. Low price, super reliable and ... you can upgrade it with a Rally Raid kit, although maybe not needed if not doing serious off road.

Enough power for two on fully loaded bike, enough room on seats for two and good provisions for carrying a RTW luggage load.
Lots of reviews on this bike besides the ones I posted below. Research!

If you want more, add the Rally Raid kit. I would look for a nice used example.
It won't be as interesting as your Enfield ... cause it probably will never break down!

https://adventure-motorcycling.com/h...0-mile-review/
Road test review of the 2016 Honda CB500X | Visordown

Maybe a Yamaha 660 Tenere might come close?

CRF 450 L seems appropriate...

I wait for WR 450 R. Hope it comes out in 2-3 years !

__________________
"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "

Thanks for the answers guys.

Yes, I guess it might seem like I am chasing a unicorn here, but I am willing to make some concessions.

Agreed that the dual sport options are not so comfortable, especially for a passenger. But last year I did about 6000k through Indonesia on a KX150 with a passenger and we just took the seat off, gave it to an upholstery guy on the side of the road with some instructions and had him cut new cushion to our specific ergonomic needs and throw some new vinyl on it et voila....not so pretty looking on a dual sport but problem solved. I guess I could just to the same.

And for luggage....It doesnt need to be perfect or pretty. In Indonesia on the KX I just bought some iron rod, sketched out a luggage system and handed it to a welder..just needed something to bungee two packpacks onto either side. Worked fine for me. I also have a Triumph scrambler here in Spain that I made a funny little luggage solution for that involved a strip of canvas that runs under my seat with nylon straps and eyelets...kindof hard to explain, I think I actually posted a thread about it with picture son this hubb somewhere. Anyways, I rode like that with a passenger all the way to Albania and scrambled some pretty dodgy dirt tracks like that. I still use that same system today on the scrambler (which will be sold to buy this new bike )

Anyways, thank you all for the answers. The CB500X could fit the bill, but yes, I would need the Rally Raid kit and an improvised luggage system and seat....I will look a bit more into that one.

And yes, there is the long awaited Tenere, but still no idea when it will be here and when it does arrive if it will make it through the EU's net.

All the other ideas that were shared (Honda 500x, Kawa KLR650, CRF450L, etc.) are not available for purchase here in Spain. BTW...anyone know why that is?

Well, its like you said Mark,
"It's all about adjusting expectations to the limitations of what exists in the real world"

Im happy to adjust expectations with some wonky innovations of my own, I guess Im just A.) frustrated all these dualsport options aren't available in Spain and B.) also wondering...even if they were would they even work to travel long distances at sustained higher speeds of 100kph or above.

It depends how much offroad ability you expect to need. As tremens says, in Europe emissions regulations have killed off former favourites like the DR650 and KLR650. If you can find a good used 660 Tenere that could meet your needs. I'm not a great fan of the 500X as it's basically an adv styled road bike. If you want any real offroadability you have to spend quite a lot on aftermarket mods, and then the suspension is still a compromise. Avoid enduro bikes as said, they will kill your butt, aren't passenger friendly and are generally in a higher state of tune than you'd want for a long distance machine.

Personally, I'm waiting for the 790, which is due in Europe late this year/early next year. The T7 could be viable and that's due around the same time.

Not sure either of above bikes could realistically handle TWO UP riding with LUGGAGE. Maybe the Tenere if fitted with a WIDER custom seat? Not sure you could do it on the so skinny new Honda ... with just 25 HP.

Well now, if your aspirations are no more than what you've already done in Indonesia, you don't have a problem. You (and a ton of Asians, Africans and others) already know that if you're either determined or bereft of other options, you'll make it work.

And I'm sure you're aware that lots of people have traveled with those larger (~650) dual sports, and only somewhat fewer with the smaller ones (~250-450), and that they can sustain speeds over 100kph. I've done this with 250 Hondas, and merely changed the oil a lot. I've done it with a 650 Kawasaki, and it lasted essentially forever. But you already know that, so what's the question? In your original post you were insisting on a far higher standard than you're likely to find in a KLR or CRF.

Mark

tenere has the most comfortable seat of all I've ridden, also for pillion.
not to mention it has very good suspension soaking up all bumps on the road nicely. I could live in xt660z seat...all day


p.s.
regarding CB500X - IMO if you add that adv kit it's no longer that much of a deal and still it's limited off-road, low ground clearance, weight etc.

Depends on the weighs of the rider and passenger

Sure it will not be a comfortable ride !

__________________
"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "

New bikes soon to be available:

Moto Guzzi V85 , promises to be the Swiss Army Knife of Adv. Touring bikes
Yamaha T7, this is the one most are waiting for.
KTM 790 ?
BMW 800 ? New offering I may be corrected here.
Others.......??

Existing:

Yamaha Super Tenere. (2012 forward) Meets most of your wants. Very reliable
KTM 1100 to 1250 ?. Meets most of your wants
BMW offerings ??. Some really like others not so much.
Ducati Multistrada IMO too techie
Moto Guzzi Stelvio. To be discontinued
Africa Twin more biased to off road
Others......??

Air cooled, easy maintenance, Jap moto’s easier to find parts.
Rebuild engines, strengthen frames, outfit for Adv. Travel

Yamaha XS650 parable twin.

Actually I didnt know that, so it's good to know . I wasnt sure if a smaller dual sport could sustain speeds like 110 for long periods. One guy I talked to about it said "no", but he was just one guy. I know I would have to do a lot of oil changes.

My standards are not all that high, maybe I gave a false impression. If that KX150 I had in indonesia could have cruised at 110 I would have just rode it all the way back to spain and it would be parked in front of my place

BTW, someone asked for a few pics of that...see below

After we sold that in Indonesia we went to Mongolia and bought a 150cc chinese bike (which we later found out was a knock-off of the real chinese brand name...imagine that, a 150cc copy of a chinese bike!) and rode two up on it for a month loaded with gear and spares off roading through the steppe. Its on trips like these (and the India to Spain on the Enfield) I grew to understand you don't need much.

That being said living in Europe there are times when I want to ride to the mountains a few hundred km away but dont want to have to quit my job and take a half year off to make sure I get there. So I need something that is highway compatible, but rugged enough that I could take it down to Africa someday. The comfort and luggage problems I can solve. (I think).

Thanks for the suggestions @NtoStravel, but I think most of those are just more bike that I am looking for. Im super small guy and not really into power and speed. And thanks @tremens for the input on the CB500. Duly Noted. And Ill check out that post you referred to @Cholo

Now Im thinking I might just look into buying some 450 off-road bike and try and make it street legal...Ill have to look into how big a headache that would be.

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I assume a "450 Off Road bike" will not be street legal? Maybe you can convert it to street legal in Spain? ... but you will have other, more serious problems using such a bike.

Most non street legal Off road bikes are basically ... Race Bikes. Motocross bikes mostly or hard Enduro bikes. Trust me, they don't make good travel bikes without doing A LOT of work ($$$$)

1. The long travel suspension will not work well two up and no passenger foot rests and missing LOTS of other things too.

2. Add luggage (but where? and How?) Race bikes have NO subframe.
With luggage mounted, suspension gets worse as you will have too much sag in the rear. Not good, will ruin steering geometry and handling goes to Hell.

3. Lighting. Race and Hard Enduro bikes have very little if any lighting and have very low Stator output. Not good for travel. You will not have good lighting or power to run heated gear.

What is your budget? $$$$
Probably should have started with this question first!

Newer bikes cost a lot of money. But if you buy a nice, low Km used dual sport bike, it could be a perfect project that you can actually make into a good travel bike.

A standard 350 to 500cc street bike could work for you too, but a Dual Sport bike will perform better off road, is stronger and if set up right, can be a comfortable and reliable travel bike.

You need to find a bike to adapt to soft luggage, has some sort of rear sub frame and is strong enough to carry passenger and your luggage.

Even though I spent months is Spain on two long bike trips, I only visited a few bike shops. I don't know what is for sale there now and don't know what older bikes might be available.

If your budget is low, I would try to find a nice old XT600 Yamaha. Will do everything you need if set up right, is super simple, air cooled and reliable. You can find them in the UK for sale, don't know about Spain.

There are a few others that could work. Look around.