I'm in the process of finding a new bike.

And I'm going on the used market (but not too used), here in Canada and Quebec, usually the used bikes are good deal because the season are short. AWY.

So I'm looking at the Tiger 800 xc, V Strom, F800 Bmw (don't know the acronym for the trail one, KTM of some sort, Honda (nothing except the new africa twin, but seem a little diasapointing bike ?).

Sure I will do trail with it but road too and on the road two persons will be on the bike (big GS, think it's too big ?).

I'm 5 feet 10 inches tall, 210 pounds, not fat but big....58 years old, 35 years of road experience but less then one year on trail.



Oh and yesss my dream are to have enough time to go to South America, long time dream.

So know help a poor felow here..

So you need something light enough to be able to pick up and throw around and big and powerful enough to carry two people and luggage? Oh and easy to maintain! I have never found the holy grail of bikes so I have two an NX650 which feels like a pizza bike and takes me anywhere and the Kawasaki for two up travel on strictly tarmac. For me at least the question should be can you pick up any of those bikes you mentioned with luggage on them?

I got rid of my Transalp which was similar to the V strom because when I dropped it I could feel a hernia coming on when I tried to get it upright again. I am ever so slightly older than you and roughly the same size.

Working on them is also something to consider. Do yo have to take loads of plastic off to get to the plugs or air filter, does the tank have to come off to get to the plugs if you want to change them. The tank on the tiger is a real pain to remove and it took two of us to remove my mates, one to hold it up and the other to disconnect the electrical gubbins which you cant get to with the tank siting on the frame.

Just a few things for you to perhaps consider? Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

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www.frothandflames.com
2012 Kawasaki W800
1997 NX 650 Dominator

All good bikes but NONE are really trail bikes. Yes, mild dirt and gravel roads will be fine, but if things get technical (steep, deep sand, muddy, big rocks and deep ruts) then those bikes could be in trouble ... especially if you are riding Two Up. At your size you can lift any of them if you're careful and first remove luggage.

The new Africa Twin (IMO) would probably do best off road in the small group listed, or perhaps a KTM? The best would be the old 950SE.

Combining two up comfort with good off road ability is sort of reaching for the Holy Grail. Lots will depend on YOU and your riding skills ... and the bravery of your pillion!

Best value of your list is the Vstrom. So reliable and so tough. Great two up and room for luggage. With proper tires it's not bad on basic dirt/gravel roads.

For mostly paved and dirt roads and eventually a trip to South America, can't beat a V-Strom. Price and reliability make it a better choice than the others you mention, capability are all about the same.

Not sure why you say you are disappointed in the Africa Twin, because it's a more capable off-roader than the other bikes listed. Personal preference or specific application comparison? All those machines are very capable machines and the differences will be in the details/semantics/compromise you are wiling to accept and your intended application.

Tiger: good package, lots of farkles, but if you crash it/heavy drop, you're not going further- like so many machines, if you kill the speedo cluster, you're done for as everything runs through there. crashbars mount onto the engine casing- you drop it, you break it. subframes have a tendency to crack, but can be repaired. 1st gear is too long for trail riding- you spend a lot of time on the clutch.

800GS: good machine, but BMW build quality not upto standard. If you do plenty of kms, you'll spend more on this bike for maintenance items, such as steering-head bearings etc. You'll need to spend some money on the suspension package for two-up with luggage, which can be expensive. Tried and tested machine, but also runs everything through the speedo cluster. I've seen 800GS's stranded because of simple things like harness wires breaking when the bike gets dropped

Strom- road biased - see comments below. Best fuel range of all the bikes listed (on the standard tank).

AT: trail biased. rear suspension will need an upgrade/service rebuild for two-up touring with luggage ($400-1000). parts availability a bit of a problem at the moment, but this will improve over the next year as the model is rolled out.



I assume you are referring the capability on mostly paved roads when you say they are about all the same? But I don't agree in general. The V-strom is the better choice for paved work (tubeless tyres, 19" front wheel etc.), whilst a machine like the Africa Twin is the better for off-road/trail stuff with a 60/40 bias towards dirt.

Also- the V-strom has the least ground clearance off all the machines. That with the other aspects of the purchase package makes it a machine with a limited off-road capability.

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Squily

Spot on!

The power of the Tiger is addictive and the BMW has low center of gravity and low first gear so good for slow stuff - but price and reliabilty wise - you cant beat the V-strom.

None of these bikes are good off roaders though - way too big and heavy.

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact

A lighter, more trail oriented machine will lack 2-up (with luggage) capability. It's all a compromise, but all of these bike are seriously capable offroad (even the Strom) in the hands of a competent rider.

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Squily

Strom in the sand...



Can be a handful...


But it'll get you wherever your dreams will take you



As with any machine, the biggest constraint it the rider

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Squily

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENfDX3eXpU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Ph0wVsscI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6DJgksyfNg

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Squily

Its a matter of fact that a lighter bike are easier to handle when the going gets rough and tough. 150 kilos ARE lighter than 250 kilos.

A bigger bike might handle more luggage better but then again - overloaded are underprepared...

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

True- small bike is lighter to handle off-road, but again I don't agree with your 2nd comment.

Sorry, we're highjacking the thread, but what is overloaded? One person's idea differs from another when it comes to what is essential to take along. I have a mate who is a minimalist. He takes the clothes he wares, basic tools for tyre repair, a bivvy and a satphone when he goes remote. His safety net is the satphone- if anything breaks on the bike, he calls someone to come and help. His gear weighs around 10kg. Me, I take food, water, more tools, spare tubes, a comfortable swag with a mattress etc. I do not intend to call for help unless I'm lying in a ditch with a broken leg or the bike is totally cactus. But my gear generally ways in around 60kg. So who's better prepared or who's overloaded? Me or him? It's all a matter or perspective.

IMO, One thing most 'lighter bike is better' advocates tend to forget is Power-to-weight ratio. A KLR / XT with 60kg of luggage is more of a handful on a sand track than a more powerful, but heavier machine like the 800's or the AT.

Now Ninja asked about specific bikes. He already indicated two-up traveling. Even if he only stays in hotels, then my logic would suggest that he will be looking at an all-rounder machine that will be comfortable for long distance travel, carry a load of at least 150kg (not that unreasonable- 2 people + 10kg of luggage - more likely, it will be closer to >180kg). Not a comfortable option/proposition on a smaller machine IMO. Been there, done that, not going back.

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Squily

Yes we are hijacking the thread - and sorry for that. I also didnt notice that TS indicated two up travel. Anyhow - two up off road on a relatively big bike? How many % of his trips with two up will be off road? A decent dirt road - no big problem but loose gravel, sand, single lane paths, ruts, stockpaths etc - I dont think that will be much % of two up riding. But two-up and off road is a bit condradictive. Its like saying Im going to run a marathon - in army boots. Not a thing most people would do.

When it comes to bike size and amount of luggage. How many times have you heard any overland traveller say - I wish I took a bigger and heavier bike? And - I wish I brought more stuff, luggage and equipment?
And how many times have you heard the opposite? I wish I took less stuff and equipment with me! And I wish I rode a smaller bike, lighter bike, more nimble bike etc? Thats what you here all the time. Nobody wishes they brought more stuff and bigger bikes - everybody wishes they had less stuff and smaller/lighter bikes. And why? Because people understand when they have had a bit of experience. Nobody who takes a 1000 cc on a long travel takes a 1200 next long travel. The chance they downscale is very much bigger - and why? Because they learn and get experience.

You mention power to weight ratio. Well power is good and fun to have but people travel around the world on Vespa 50 ccs and Aussie postie bikes - so power isnt neccesary for long distance travelling. But it is fun - no doubt about that. In the end you will need to come down to a compromise between size, power, cost, reliability etc.

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

We obviously move in different circles- The majority of my mates start small, go up, not down. Each to his own

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Squily

Im talking about long distance motorbike travelling. Not about owning a motorbike in general....

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

If you do enough miles, BMW will replace them free under warranty!