A friend of mine - female - has just passed her UK test on a 125 Honda and, frustrated by the Honda's lack of overtaking ability, is now looking for something with a bit more power.

She's a lady of, err, mature years, and about 5' 4" tall so anything that needs a stepladder is out. Her wish list currently says something around 300cc, ideally a twin and not too big / heavy. Also, ideally, it would be secondhand, but recent secondhand so no fast appreciating old classics.

I can't think of anything but that may be because my morning coffee hasn't yet kicked in. Anything anyone else can think of that she should be looking at?

Honda CB250 Nighthawk or if something newer a Honda CB500 Rebel, I would say the 300 but don't think it is available in the UK, a friend who is 5'0" has one and can handle it without a problem.

CBR500F is short friendly and a very good bike all around. Plenty of overtaking ability, but not too spicy, good for long distance and commuting, works well two-up ... I used a CBR500R for a while (same bike but prettier) and I'd like to have another in due course

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Agreed, and the new Honda CB300R is also def worth a look. For something more stylish, maybe the Husqvarna 401?

That CBR300 looks like the sort of thing she might be after but from the pictures I've seen the seat height might kill it for her. It might be different in the flesh though so I'll put it on the suggestion list.

The Nighthawk looks as though it might suit her - particularly with the low seat. They haven't been around for a while though which might put her off. The styling doesn't appeal much to me but that's in the eye of the beholder and she may think differently.

Strange really that the upgrade path from 125 seems to be a fairly stoney one. Once you've chucked the L plates away it's like going from a sprat to a whale. Fine if you're 6' tall or willing to 'man up' (as per Wheelie's dangling legs discussion), but if you just want something like a 125 but better there's not much around. Back in the Stone Age the Japanese companies between them must have had some kind of bike covering every single cc of capacity from 50cc up. Times have changed.

You didn't say much about what she will be using it for., so I'll assume she is the average plain Jane

In my country,since it was introduced in 1998, the Fazer (now FZ6)) has been considered both the beginners bike and "women's bike" of choice - above any other. It has more or less been so for quarter of a century (which means many great used deals to be found).

It's popularity has come about for good reason - as it is an awesome allrounder for tarmac, it is well matched for the types of roads we have arround here, and ergonomically it will suit many body types. It is affordable. It is well suited for beginners and advanced riders alike. It looks good.

It is a great tourer with fairly straight up sitting position. It will keep pace with sport bikes in the twisties, but can also handle some gravel. The engine is smooth and likes to rev. It has enough power to not be too fuzzy all the time about which gear you are in. It is cheaper than the V Strom. Most should be able to plant their feet. But it is not an offroader!!!


The FZ6 will handle gravel roads just fine - even fairly beat up ones. But, you won't be standing up on it (maybe lift your bum over a bump) or ride even remotely agressively.

But, 10/90 gravel/tarmac, and especially for a beginner without off road ambition - it may be the perfect bike? If she has offroad ambitions for the not so distant future, then she will want something entirely different.

What is more important to most beginners riders than CC is the smoothness of power delivery through whatever ammount of power we are talking about. The second is not so much weight as it is how easy the bike is to man-handle from the saddle - irrespectively of wet weight. Many low displacement adventure bikes are tall and top heavy, with a smoothness in power delivery that rivals a cangaroo on speed.

If she has ambitions to ride beyond the smooth tarmac and gravel within a couple of years, then she should go for the "cangaroo". If she plans on sticking to paved roads - then she should go for a more road oriented bike.

By comparison, the 390 adventure (awesome beginners bike for a person with some offroad ambitions), is quite unforgiving in it's power delivery (racy). Whereas the Fazer doesn't much seem to care what gear you are in or what revs you hold, the high compressed and weaker and racier KTM is very finicky.

The low seat of the Fazer instills far more confidence when it comes to man handling the bike than the 390 Adventure does (or any dual sport or adventure bike). In my opinion, the Fazer are among the top 10% best bike options for 90% of the beginners out there. Most beginners think they know what they will want or need as they improve, but most don't. If you yourself are an adventure rider and plan for her to partake in your thing, a more specialized bike might be in order? However, if she is to find her own way, - then the better starting point might be something more conservative? Like an old Fazer with ABS?

If she has offroading ambitions, I would consider the Honda CRF 300 rally or the KTM 390 Adventure, or the HONDA CBX 500. The CRF is more expensive and less of a hoot on the tarmac than the KTM. The KTM makes for better touring, and is still great in the rough (albeit not as great in the rough as the CRF). The KTM is the cheapest.. The CBX is the better tourer, but is still quite capable offroad, though not as good in the rough as the other two. The CBX is also the most expensive. All three bikes are however very good both on road and offroad. But, if you are short - you need to man up and practice, Also the second hand market is miniscule compared to the Fazer. Best value deals to be found on the fazer.

You will hear a lot of tout for 250-300cc bikes, and other low weight dual sports and adventure bikes. In this forum, I will agree most if the time - riding solo RTW, it usually makes sense. But, most beginners will start out "touring" on tarmac (with the occasional stretch of mostly good quality gravel), long before they even attempt any "adventure motorcycling".

For touring - engine power really matters a lot more than the small displacement riders want to admit. If you want to keep up with your friends, going up some twisties to a mountain top, passing the occasional car - you surely will fall behind most. More importantly, the noob may very well still try to keep up, and due to lack of acceleration, will try to retain speed where he shouldn't - ending really bad.

So going from offroad oriented to street oriented

• Honda CRF 300 Rally
• KTM 390 Adventure
• Honda CBX 500
• Yamaha fz6 (Fazer)*
  
  *The Fazer is discontinued, but also very cheap.
  

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I would NOT recommend a Fazer 600 for a short rider, they're very heavy.

On the "what's up from a 125" side of things it's tricky, I ride what would have been a logical step up - a CBF250 - however it needs dedication to get that bike to overtake anything, hence my recommendation of the CBR500F/R. The CBF250 has been replaced by the CBR300 - bear in mind it's also not quick enough to do lots of overtaking either, and is a single cylinder which some people might find buzzy.

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That's about it. Nothing other than regular leisure road riding. I was going to say fine weather but she came out with us in January on a pretty grimy day.

One of the other people that came with us in Jan was on an early Fazer so she knows them and dismissed it as way to heavy. Compared to her 125 it seemed more in the immovable object category. I think its hard for those of us that are reasonably well built and with decades of big bike experience to imagine what it's like to be small and slightly built. Years back I'd have suggested something like a CB200 Honda or even one of the 200cc two strokes. The old RS200 Yamaha would have been on my suggestion list, but those days are long gone.

Five thoughts

I'll add a vote for the CB500F. I had one for 30 odd months and it was ace. Toured, commuted, did the traffic light GP. Made me smile everywhere and I was daft to trade it for the lard bucket that was the CB500X in order to gain a barely usable off road capability.

Why a capacity limit? Seat height yes, weight yes, insurance cost yes, but these no longer always follow capacity.

She needs a bike she likes. OK, if that's a KTM Dakar spec we are stuffed, but I'd start there and just see what ticks most boxes. Bonnevilles, V7's, Harley Sportsters, naked BMW's, Tracer variations all seem to need to go on the list even if they get crossed out quickly.

How about a scooter? The 350cc class of modern CVT bikes are honestly superior on a practicality front than any other road tourer. The Mods and Rockers thing is hopefully now well and truly pushing up daisies. See point three above of course.

The Chinese make clones of old Japanese 400's. Look at MASH etc. They may be total dross, but have an interesting spec sheet.

Andy

Ktm 390 duke?

BMW G310GS?

Kawasaki 300 Ninja?

The CB500F is a good bike.

If all she wants is a leasurly ride, then I'm with TWBonnie - a scooter is a great option. When I had my Vespa GTS 300, I probably rode that bike more often than all my other bikes combined. I even put studded tyres on it and used it for my commute during winter. Besides my classics, the GTS was the bike I have owned the lingest. What was meant to be my second bike, or a bike for my better half to use once in a while, became my go to vehicle nine out of ten times.

A GTS 300 will happily cruise at 130 KMS/hr, even with a pillion. At a stop light, you will cross the intersection faster than other bikers get to react to their controls. It is suuuuuper comfortable with a tall windscreen and the oh so sweet seat - ergonomically and with all wind protection, it can't be beat.

With the bag hook behind the leg shield, and a top box, and it is super practical for shopping and commuting. I've done semi long trips with camping gear on it as well. And, where you need to muscle a motorcycle, telepathy will do on a scooter. Lane splitting in traffic is so easy compared to anything else that you will win the "race'. And a Vespa is beautiful!

The Fazer is heavy, but it sits quite low, and with a pretty low seat, it's not that bad to man-handle. It is a good budget option for a high quality bike as there are lots of older low mileage bikes around.

My only gripe with the CBR F is the ergonomics (and even more so on the R). It is a bit too sporty/forward leaning to enjoy for cruising or in traffic. But it is awesome for agressive riding

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Well, it's partially a licensing thing, and partially a marketing thing. The next license limitation after a 125 is the A2 class, which is 35kW and a certain power-to-weight ratio... since so many middleweight bikes can be A2-restricted, most people just go directly to the big bike that they saw themselves on in their dreams.

I also think that if you've graduated from a 125, you can generally be trusted with a 500 that's been designed for the A2 class - that is, never meant to make more than 35kW and therefore optimized for torque and useability. That's why Honda's 500 bikes are so damn popular. By the way, if the Nighthawk is an option, have a look at the CMX500 - same engine but in a cruiser bodystyle.

Plus, in Europe and the richer parts of Asia, people who outgrew a 125 and want a somewhat faster city/tarmac machine, but don't care about looking like a cool biker, are very easily tempted into maxi-scooters. No clutch or shifting required, much bigger secure storage space, rain/wind protection, easy to get on and off... Ignore your self-image worries, and a Burgman 400 is an incredible two-wheeled machine.

One thing to consider is what dealerships are close by?
Many years ago my wife bought a bike from a local main dealer and struck up a good relationship with them and it proved invaluable over the 10 years she had the bike.
The Honda CB 500 range is great so is the Yamaha MT 03/05
Triumph have some great bikes for shorter riders.

Obviously a trip round all the dealers to sit on and test ride a few bikes but also….
Go to a few bike meet places, walk around and chat to a few female riders, maybe go to a woman’s rider group - there’s plenty around: curvey riders etc.

Main thing, I think, is to not rush in, also avoid recommendations from blokes without proper research. I’ve seen so many riders, male and female, being influenced by others and buying the wrong bike - it’s a costly mistake.

Good luck to her, glad she’s on board

Only if you're tall. Like the GPZ500S, anyone under 5'10 or so fits nicely.

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Yes, I can see the route most people (who mostly are men) would want to go down - chuck the plates away and get a 'real' bike up to the limits your licence allows. It's a p/w version of speed limits - who does 50 in a 60 limit. Having ridden with her (on 125s) I don't think the power would be intimidating or she'd get carried away; if anything she read the road and handled the bike better than I did. But she wasn't as fluid at low speeds and she was well aware of it - it was her biggest concern before the test. I'm sure it's something that'll come with practice and experience but you wouldn't want that to come by finding yourself underneath the bike in a car park.

To all of you that replied and made suggestions, thanks very much. I'll compile a list of possibilities and pass it on to her. We were supposed to be going out on a small group (4 of us) ride next Thursday but the weather looks bad so it might get postponed.