Hello together,
reading around in this forum has been really helpful so far and really enjoyable!
For mid 2011 I plan to start my first ever long distance motorcycle trip. It will cover most of West- and Central Africa. Can’t wait for that to happen and really hope, I get everything together by then as planned, including the $$. My question here is: how much would you value the (light-) weight of a bike for touring on expectedly poor quality dirt roads?
What I've got now is a Suzuki DR-Z 250 which runs just great and I love that bike and can do most of it's maintenance and minor repairs myself. I also know how to handle it on and off-road, with or without luggage. This one only weighs just over 100kg (plain bike weight). In Australian conditions (and with good quality fuel available) I never felt it lacks any power and the local speed limit of 110km/h can be achieved without trouble or vibration or too much noise. Mid 2011 it'll have around 20000km on the clock. I really love my little 250 but am unsure if she's tough enough for a long tour.
As an alternative bike I’d have in mind a Suzuki DR650SE, which you get for around AU$8000 brand new. Plain bike weight of the DR650 is 166kg. I know I would love that bike too.
On the plus side the DR650 would offer more power and since it's new, potentially less repairs. While at the same time maintenance and repairs are very similar to it's little sister, the DR-Z250, so I'd still be confident enough to do most of it myself too. On the minus side there are two big points: an extra AU$8000 on the budget plus an extra 60kg bike weight to carry around.
Many people are obviously happy with the DR650 and it's a proven bike for Africa tours. But, for comparison reasons, is there anybody out there with experience with a 250cc bike for touring? Will the engine most likely survive some 30000km in heat and seriously bad road conditions (after starting with already 20000km on the clock) without a need of rebuilding it? Would you see the need for more power than a 250cc can provide?
Cheers,
Marco

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no risk - no fun

Hi Marco,

as for mileages well my trusty Yamaha XT250 gave over 75,000 miles of trouble free riding in a little over four years.

During that time she was used to commute daily, ran throughout the winter months, trail ridden all over the place and used as a touring machine when heavily laden with kit.

OK she didn't get the rough treatment that you may have in Africa but she's been a perfect bike for me and only a Hit n Run accident with a van stopped mer covering way more miles (she was written off).

Still on original clutch, cam chain, etc. Only service items were replaced, apart from items damaged in accidents.

Light weight has a lot going for it!

Reagdrs

Reggie

Perhaps you should consider a DRZ400S, it's about halfway between your 250 & the DR650 in terms of power & weight. Very reliable, plenty of aftermarket support, easy to service etc.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

I've only done the north-west corner of Africa--Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania and Senegal--but what's clear is that speeds of 70-90kph are the norm, so you certainly don't need the additional power.

Can't see a problem with the heat--the bike would be big compared to what most of the locals ride.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Part of the problem with smaller capacity bikes is that the manufacturers tend to downsize all the other components as well - cheaper suspension, flimsier frame, weak electrics etc. It's these things that cause problems if you're dependent on the bike for months at a time. I'd have no problem using a 250cc bike if all the other bits were robust enough but that combination is rare in something that's road legal. They do exist though (and at this point hopefully others will chip in with a list! )

Time and time again you'll see people posting that for their next trip they're going to take less stuff on a lighter bike but there's a practical minimum (beyond yourself + toothbrush) of stuff you need if you're going to be on the road for a while or going somewhere off the beaten track. You'll have an easier time mentally if you're not worried that the subframe is going to snap with the weight or the suspension pitch you off. Generally that feeling that the bike is operating well within its limits tends to be something that increases in line with capacity.

Hi Bikingmarco,

I went to Panama and back from the U.S. this spring on a 250 Kawasaki Super Sherpa. 20,000 kilometers of trouble free riding. The bike now has over 33,000 kilometers with just routine maintenance. It will cruise at 110 kph all day long, but in the third world, you are normally tootling along on back roads or rutted jeep trails at a slower pace. And a skinny little thumper is perfect for that. I used to travel on bigger bikes, (loaded down BMWs). I am a minimalist now. And really think the 250's are the perfect size for third world travel, IF you can discipline yourself to travel light. It sounds like you can.

One advantage of taking your DRZ250 over a newer DR650 is that it gets far better fuel economy. You will save a lot of money over the course of a 30,000 kilometer adventure. It is also easier on tires which are quite expensive in some countries. And new sprockets and chain should last your entire trip on a little 250. It is also lightweight and easier to maneuver in sand and rough conditions over a heavier bike. As well as easier to pick up if you dump it. Another advantage that may not come to mind immediately is that it is easier to throw in a truck or boat if needed. And you will be 8000 AUD richer if you ride what you have. Any bike you take is going to take a beating on a 30,000 kilometer trek through Africa. The little DRZ is a tough little booger with a bullet proof motor and can take a beating. Rather than thrashing a brand new 8000.00 bike, I would take your trusty little DRZ that you know how to work on. Put on some new tires, new sprockets and chain and ride the wheels off that bike. Spend your money on travel.

You'll have a fun adventure no matter what bike you take.

Best luck,
John Downs

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South America and back on a 250 Super Sherpa Minimalist Adventure http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831076

Thanks for your replies, guys, much appreciated. I was pretty much concerned about needing to rebuild the engine half way through the trip as being the limiting factor. Reason being that there are quite a lot of similar 250cc bikes of all major manufacturers on ebay with around 30000km on them and an already rebuilt engine. They'd probably been ridden hard offroad most of their time. But it's quite encouraging to see Reggies XT250 lasting for so long.

It's a really good point from backofbeyond though that it's the rest of the bike that requires just as much consideration. I'll definitely have a closer look into the reliability of these parts.
As for the DR-Z400 - I did have a go on that one too, one of my workmates has on of these nice bikes. The thing is though that for whatever reason they are actually more expensive to buy then a DR650 and are only around 20kg lighter. It's probably because the DR650 hasn't changed in the last decade or so whereas the DR-Z400 has had some facelifts.

I've got still more than a year to go before departure day so it's plenty of time for more research. But if I decide to get a new bike I'd like to have it some 6 month before the tour to properly prepare it, test it on weekends and get used to it's behavior. But, to be honest, right now I'm tending towards taking my little 250cc. For the three reasons light weight, knowing the bike inside out and saving money. As I know myself I probably change my mind every second week on this :confused1: that's why your experience in touring and advice is heaps appreciated.

Cheers from Sydney,

Marco.

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no risk - no fun

20kg is a reasonable amount when you're stuck somewhere & need to drag the bike out of a ditch etc.

There have been very few facelifts to the DRZ, there's the 400E with longer suspension, basic instruments & a flatslide carb - more offroad orientated. There's also the SM version in addition to the 400S.

One benefit of the DRZ is that valves are scheduled to be checked only every 15,000 miles with oil changes every 3,000 miles. One reason why they might be more expensive is that they're more popular...... Don't get me wrong, I put just under 50,000 miles on the earlier DR600 in the '90's & loved it but the DRZ is a superior bike on trails in the hands of an average rider.

Not sure what DRZ's sell for where you are but we recently paid £1,950 for a very clean & tidy 04 bike with some nice extras that had only covered 2,700 miles.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

I won't bring up my WR250R that I'm taking to Russia next year. Not because it isn't a fantastic bike (I got rid of my XT660R because it didn't do anything better and a lot of things worse) but because they're expensive and hard to find in the UK.

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

This girl didn't find it a problem.

Regards, Mick

My 2 cent worth

I rode a DR200 from Cape Town to London up the east coast last year. (24000km) No problem mechanically. If I did it again I would go for some thing a litte bigger, as most road are (95%)tarmac.

A big + for smaller bike are they are easier to throw in a truck or boat and squeeze in to the hotel lobby.


Soft panniers I would go for the dr250

Hard pannier drz400 /650

i hope this help, and have fun

This is the reality of the fallacy that magazines and 'explorers' are sometimes a little dishonest about. These long distance trips are mostly about road. It is in their interest to keep these places exciting and inaccessible in order to sell articles. Flame me by all means but I'm just saying the routes people take, from what I've seen, are by and large the same whether they're on big bikes or small ones. On my next trip I'm hoping to change that.

ALSO - if you take a small bike you probably don't have to worry about the hardpannier, softbags arguments ! That alone is a good reason

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

Wow, I must say I am very positively surprised by this thread. Thanks again for your comments and sharing your experience with me newbie!
Also thanks to Mick for the link to the Trans-Africa page on the TTR250, sounds like a great trip and certainly will keep me busy for a while.
Totally agree that on many trips most of the km will be done on decent quality roads, most likely on my planned tour too. Without going into too much detail on my plans here - the tour will basically go from Capetown to Tangier (Morocco) via central and west Africa. The company I'm currently working for in Sydney is well involved in development aid projects and has offices all over these countries. My plan is to stay 8 months in Africa using these offices as way points to relax, get stuff sent too, connect to locals and keep in touch with the world outside or even earn some travel money if needed. The fact that I will most likely travel by myself in between these offices (my friend is still deciding but it doesn't look good) puts the reliability of my bike high up on the priority list. Also the route will lead me through areas in the Democratic Republic of Congo, the other Congo and Cameroon - countries which are famous for awful roads. Therefore a lightweight bike is just as much on top of the priority list because it will need to go through muddy tracks, corrugation, creek crossings etc. and will very likely be dropped a few times. Whereas I wasn't so much concerned about the lack of power of a 250cc the reliability issue was something I was totally unable to assess.
All your comments are really helpful here. The option to put a bit of preparation work into my beloved DR-Z250 and use her for touring seems more and more a viable option now. Packing light has always been on my cards anyway, I learned that from some overland bicycle tours. Soft panniers therefore seem the way to go with my 250.
At the end of this year (when summer is back) I'll do a few multiple day camping trips with a few friends in Australia, going on quite a few unpaved tracks in National Parks. That'll be a good test if it all works out I guess.

Cheers again,

Marco

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no risk - no fun

Regardless of the bike you decide on, have a good trip & let us know how it goes.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

Hi Marco
3 reasons to go on a 250:
1. It'll do the job adequately and probably more adequately than what a lot of people (including me) use(d) for Trans Africa

2. Some of your biggest expenses will be fuel and freight. A 250 is likely to have a higher mpg than most and if you have to ship it somewhere it'll cost much less because it's lighter and has less volume when put in a box

3. Most importantly for you: You already have one, know how to work on it and you trust it. Lots of people discard the bike they have and buy something else for their trip. I did and it was a mistake. Go with the bike you've got.

Let us know how your trip goes.
cheers
Chris

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