 |
|
7 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
1989 XT600 (kick start) timing question
I am getting a clicking sound from top end. Motor is new to me, its had a recent top end rebuild (piston, chain and clean up) before I bought it.
I checked the chain and it is on the 1st wear mark (new).
loosened and tighten decompress cable and no change to clicking.
Timing mark question.
When my rocker arms have a little movement they are at the mark with the little circle and line through it. Which is not TDC
When I turn the flywheel till the "T" the rockers have no movement but the piston is TDC (checked also with screw driver).
I am wondering if the clicking comes from the valves being maladjusted?
The book says the the rockers should have a little play at TDC
The bike runs strong now and idles smoothly, just worried about the top end noise. 
Am I thinking this through correctly?
Thanks
Greg
|
7 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,598
|
|
|
I know nothing of your particular bike, but on any four stroke there are in effect TWO TDC positions 360 degrees apart. On either compression stroke when both valves should be closed so tappet clearance can usually be detected. The other is at the end of the exhaust stroke, and by then the inlet valve may well be open as well. you will not have any play there. just make sure you are on the compression stroke when you are looking for tappet clearances.
Hope that helps.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
|
|
|
These bikes do have some top end noise. It is important to verify your valve clearances are correct. Also, verify you have .5mm free play in your decompression cable. If there is NO play, you may be hearing noise from that. There is an in-line adjuster to set that free play.
For valve clearances you need the manual for your bike. Correct position for setting valves is TDC when both intake and exhaust valves are not depressed. You set the flywheel at the TDC mark, engine cold and adjust for the proper clearance. My 86 setting are: intake .0028-.0047 in. 3 thousandths nominal and exhaust .0047-.0067 in or 5 thousandths nominal.
After setting, recheck after tightening the lock nut. When tightening the lock nut, hold the adjuster still so it will not move. Feeler gauge should have a slight drag feel and not sloppy loose for a correct setting. You set both sets of valves at the same time, same timing mark TDC setting.
Hope this helps. Too loose or too tight is bad so check it.
__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
Noise is top end, sounds like valves
flywheel has 3 marks: circle with line, H and T
TDC is at the "T", i can see this is the max height of piston
Both inlet and outlet were tight at T position. Adjusted them to spec with engine cold.
Same ticking
Decompress decmp cable only loosens the one exhaust valve correct? Would it be louder then perhaps on that side? Sounded the same to my ear on both sides.
Also decomp setting: if using my hand and pulling toward back of bike i should set for 5mm before the pressure begins? So this would be very immediate?
Thanks
Greg
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
|
|
|
Decompression cable is 1/2 mm not 5 mm free play. This is just to make sure the decompression lever in the rocker box is NOT engaged in the running condition. If it were too tight, the rocker arm of one exhaust valve, the right side, would be tapping against it making noise.
So you have set the valves? Did you have a slight drag on the feeler gauge? If it is too loose, will rattle.
If your decompression cable is too loose, you will not get the full effect of the decompression and starting will be harder to accomplish. Set correctly, the correct procedure is to depress kicker until it clicks, allow kicker to come to the top the kick fully and hard. Learning the starting procedure for your bike is the key. They are all a bit different.
__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
Intake adjusted to .08 slight drag feeler gauge
exhaust adjusted to .14 slight drag feeler gauge
Both these measurements are in spec
sounded a little worse i think
Can I easily disconnect the decom cable to see if that helps?
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
|
|
|
Maybe take a bright flashlight a have a look inside the rocker cover just to see if any damage can be seen. You'd be looking for a worn cam or rockers that don't move as much as the others.Pay closer attention to the one by the decompression lever.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
this is a video of problem -
When i open the caps (valve checks) i can see there is oil circulating.
otherwise runs good starts fairly easy as well.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
|
|
|
Which type of feeler gauge are you using, a US Inches or a Metric? Sounds like too much gap... .003" or .005" intake or exhaust. .003 and .005 is inches or put another way 3 or 5 thousandths of an inch. By the clack sound, it sounds like 8 and 14 thousandths of an inch.
__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
i'll give another check
When I started it made same sound. So before I made any adjustment. At that point the valves were tight with no room to get the smallest feeler in. After loosening valves to what I believe to be spec I have the same clicking.
|
8 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
|
|
|
That doesn't have the exact sound of loose valves, from what I could tell. To me it sounded like that decompressor hitting . Start the bike up again and feel the decomp lever to see if it is moving . Another thing to try is with one adjuster cap off, with it running take a oil squirt gun and quickly squirt a whole bunch of oil over the rockers and parts to see if things really change. It will make a bit of a mess but may tell you if it is an oil supply problem or if one particular rocker is doing it.
Just make sure you don't put the tip of the squirt gun inside and have it get pinched by the rocker.
After listening to it several more times, it kind of sounds like the left side is louder(as your sitting on the bike). By the tempo it definitely has the valve train speed and sound.
When you recheck clearances, grab each rocker a try to wiggle it, see if any have a bunch of side to side movement or feel different than the others.
|
9 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
|
|
|
This is interesting, please keep us in the loop. if you just cannot come up with anything, it is time to remove the rockerbox and have a good look at the cam and individual rocker arms. The rockerbox does NOT have a gasket, you just need some Yamabond #4 or similar to seal it back up. Valves need to be rechecked after reassembly. Take pics and post here.
This procedure can be done with the engine still in the frame but you will need to remove one bolt underneath the back side, top hangers as well as front bolts then the engine will tilt downwards allowing the rockerbox to be removed. There is at least one bolt inside the rear valve opening and one on the very top in the recess. You will need a 5mm hex socket. Seems like there may be a extra bolt somewhere starting with the '88 model. Not sure as I have an 86 and 84 model.
__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.
|
9 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
The valves were loose, I didn't adjust properly. I readjusted to spec but have same noise/clicking. It is perhaps less so but still there.
Question- when adjusting valves: I am turning flywheel ccw till reach "T" to TDC. Would i need to go another 360 deg if I'm not at correct spot of stroke? Another words every time the T shows on the flywheel is that the correct spot to adjust valves?
I'll take off the rocker head and post findings.
Do i need to drain oil?
recommended sealant other then yamabond:?
thanks
Greg
|
9 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
|
|
|
NO, you must be on the compression stroke. This is indicated by both intake and exhaust valves being closed. You align the T mark to make sure you are at the very top and the valves are at the very loosest spot for adjustment.
No you do not have to drain oil. Just make sure you have some sealer, like Yamabond #4 to reseal the rocker box. You put the sealer on both surfaces after a good cleaning to remove old sealer and any oil. Apply sealer and let air dry for 3 or 4 minutes to get tacky then assemble. Once assembled it is good to let sit for a few hours or a day to allow the sealant to dry and not leak.
The sound on your video does sound like loose settings. Just make sure you are at TDC on compression. TDC on exhaust stroke you will see exhaust valves close then intake open, just rotate to the next TDC. Looking at the stator, CCW is the correct direction to turn.
__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.
|
9 Oct 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 149
|
|
|
Thanks Steve
This video was after I readjusted, hard to tell if there was an improvement.
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Next HU Events
ALL Dates subject to change.
2025 Confirmed Events:
- Virginia: April 24-27 2025
- Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
- Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
- CanWest: July 10-13 2025
- Switzerland: Date TBC
- Ecuador: Date TBC
- Romania: Date TBC
- Austria: Sept. 11-15
- California: September 18-21
- France: September 19-21 2025
- Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025
Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!
Questions about an event? Ask here
See all event details
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
