 |
24 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London
Posts: 22
|
|
|
Morning Backfire
Problem: When cold, the bike starts OK, drives OK for about 5minutes then stutters and eventualy stalls when coasting to a stop (it can be avoided by tweaking the throttle constantly). After about 10minutes it seems to be OK again! Whats up?
More info:
I've moved to a place nearer my work (3 miles away!) so the bike is doing a lot of small journeys, usually in slow traffic. In the recent cold snap we've had in London, the bike has been slightly more difficult to start (backfiring, stalling on throttle) but does so fairly quickly. It then behaves fine until I hit about 5minutes in and acceleration goes lumpy and the bike wants to stall when not in gear or with clutch fully in. After about 10minutes it seems ok again. The problem doesnt happen on the way home (the bike is in an underground garage- ie its warm). PS if you've read this far- is it a problem that the bike is now making lots of small journeys?
|
24 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 39
|
|
|
I have a similar problem with my Thunderace which also occurs about 5 minutes after starting my motorway journey. It is OK on a steady throttle at say 85 mph but when I throttle on it splutters and nearly dies then finally catches again and carries on. Like you, no problem going home in the evening. I wondered whether it was caused by a small amount of water in the tank resulting from overnight condensation in damp conditions? I keep my bike overnight in an open garage. During the day at work it sits outside.
Neil.
|
24 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Salisbury UK
Posts: 155
|
|
|
I think you gentlemen are suffering from Carb icing especially in this weather.
The treatment is to add some I think Silkolene fuel treatment to the fuel until it warms up again in March.You can get it from bike shops just ask.
Charlie
|
24 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 109
|
|
|
The Thunderace problem is definitely carb icing. The XT maybe not. My Tenere had the same symptoms a couple of weeks ago both going to work and coming home (25 miles each way). My first thought was carb icing but I have never suffered it before on this bike and the return journey was definitely above freezing, even allowing for carb venturi effects, etc. However, I do have in line fuel filters from each fuel tap. I haven't cleaned them for years (and many thousands of miles) and my last major trip was UK to Timbouctou and back winter 03/04. I think they are contaminated and would not allow sufficient fuel through to the float chamber whilst moving. When I stopped I reckon enough fuel trickled through to fill the float chamber and allowed me to continue until it emptied again. Haven't had a chance to check this out yet (rubbish weather at weekends) but that's my theory for the moment!
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London
Posts: 22
|
|
|
Well it was snowing this morning and it was slightly worse than normal... the carb icing?
Having said that, I think it could well be a fuel problem...
Well, until it gets warmer, I guess I'll be revving the throttle at all the traffic lights sounding like a bonkers biplane and spooking crossing pedestrians! Thanks for your help.
[This message has been edited by JFL (edited 25 February 2005).]
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 216
|
|
|
Probably condensed water from air intake and carb ice, lying in the bottom of carb.
Try draining carb to see if that is it..
Open drain screw, let poor down.
Water is heavier than fuel, can accumulate.
Store bike on dry place, when turning off engine, switch on choke to the fullest, cough, switch off, keep choke until morning, start, better now?
Matt
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 39
|
|
|
Carb icing ... I've heard of it but never experienced it before - although I have had the experience I've described with an FZR600R too, and my son still has it with that bike. If carb icing is what's happening it does not seem to correlate with outside temperature particularly. I rode in to London this morning in snow most of the way (after the bike had spent two nights and a day in a very cold open garage) and there was no problem. I assume the phenomenon does require a particular combination of conditions - presumably damp, followed by condensation and then low temperatures. Is it well understood and is there a good explanation somewhere on the Web?
Neil.
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Salisbury UK
Posts: 155
|
|
|
The venturi of the carb lowers the pressure due to the shape of it and Boyles law so as the pressure in the venturi drops the temperature has to to allow an increas in volume. Therefore this can happen at positive temps anything below about 7C. Fall in temp cuases the water in the air to freeze in the carb this inhibits the fuel evaporation so the engine doint go. Stop for a few mins and the engine heat thaws the carb and your off again for about 2 miles unntil it freezes again.
Get this fuel treatment and all will be well Demon Tweeks part number 600150389 Silkolene Pro FST, not the cheapest but they will get it to you quick.
I know because the wife had a ZZR600 and if the carb heating curcuit got blocked it iCed in milliseconds.
Charlie
Charlie
[This message has been edited by braindead (edited 25 February 2005).]
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: sunny England
Posts: 790
|
|
|
carb icing is quite common, 4cyl kawasakis are well known for it. a lot of bikes have carb heaters installed. it doesnt occur at really low temperatures like you'd expect,its the temp difference across the carb that makes it ice up. if the air temp is a few degrees above freezing, the venturi inside the carb lowers this to below freezing and water is condensed onto the metal. this forms ice and it doesnt take very much to spoil the shape of your inlet, throwing the fuelling out.
------------------
dave
__________________
dave
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 651
|
|
|
I never had carb icing problems with the XT, so would not think of that as the first cause.
Important to know is that with lower temps the mixture gets leaner so with the choke off you might just 'pass the edge' at which the engine runs fine.
Another common cause for problems might be that the choke plunger (left side of the carb, where the calble goes in) does not fully return to the 'choke off' position initially. Then, when engione stalls and you kick it a bit around it does return to the choke off position because of the vibrations. Common problem with the 3AJ types as dirt and water flows into the bore of the carb via the choke cable. Remedy is to remove, clean bore and plunger.
Auke
|
25 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 39
|
|
|
Thanks, all, for the interesting info. In view of the cause as described it is surprising that carb icing doesn't happen a great deal more often.
Neil.
|
26 Feb 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 216
|
|
|
I've only experienced the problem once, when it was very cold.
I took the grip of a screwdriver, knocked the floater case a little, then it started immediately.
3 possibilitys,
condensed water from air, fuel etc.
-inlet valve freezez, knock with screwdriver grip!
-jet hole freezez, open throttle and rev it!
-water in floater case making fuel level unreliable, bleed carb!
I guess its a british problem as air is cold and humid over there these days.
Maybe an occcasional 0,5% mix of full synthethic 4 stroke oil in fuel would cure, its also good for plenty of other reasons when humid, as avoiding tank rust etc.
Matt
[This message has been edited by Matt595 (edited 26 February 2005).]
|
14 Mar 2005
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 109
|
|
Quote:
Originally posted by greynomads:
The Thunderace problem is definitely carb icing. The XT maybe not. My Tenere had the same symptoms a couple of weeks ago both going to work and coming home (25 miles each way). My first thought was carb icing but I have never suffered it before on this bike and the return journey was definitely above freezing, even allowing for carb venturi effects, etc. However, I do have in line fuel filters from each fuel tap. I haven't cleaned them for years (and many thousands of miles) and my last major trip was UK to Timbouctou and back winter 03/04. I think they are contaminated and would not allow sufficient fuel through to the float chamber whilst moving. When I stopped I reckon enough fuel trickled through to fill the float chamber and allowed me to continue until it emptied again. Haven't had a chance to check this out yet (rubbish weather at weekends) but that's my theory for the moment!
|
Finally checked filters this weekend - left hand filter totally blocked and right hand a bit less blocked. Replaced them both and over 50 mile test ride no problem.
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Next HU Events
ALL Dates subject to change.
2025 Confirmed Events:
- Virginia: April 24-27 2025
- Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
- Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
- CanWest: July 10-13 2025
- Switzerland: Date TBC
- Ecuador: Date TBC
- Romania: Date TBC
- Austria: Sept. 11-14
- California: September 18-21
- France: September 19-21 2025
- Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025
Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!
Questions about an event? Ask here
See all event details
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
