Hi all,

Quick intro:
Come from a family of motorcycles, drive my dad's Harley all the time and have had a scooter for the last 9 years. My cousin has the xt600e from 2000, and on Saturday i got myself a 2002 XT600E. Saturday was amazing! I picked it up in the north of England and drove it to The Lake District on its first day with my girlfriend for Valentines.

The problems:
First time refueling turned the engine/ignition off and had no trouble restarting the bike. The second time turning the bike off was a "pee break" and tried turning the bike on for 20 minutes. Every time I clicked the ignition button, i would hear a single clicking sound (Solenoid/relay cutting power) and then nothing. Eventually trying the same thing worked, and off we went. Starter motor got the bike going first time...
Sunday morning the bike didn't start again. I parked on a hill so rolled it down and bump started it. The bike ran flawlessly afterwards.
Refueling when needed, we made our way slowly down to London. Everytime we refueled i turned off the bike and had increasing trouble bump starting. Finally in Birmingham some guys from KTM even helped us at the service station but we failed to bump start the bike after 2 hours. We also tried jump starting it (their battery, and then the breakdown recovery guys jump cables too) and it didnt work. This indicates there is a problem in the starting circuit, excluding the battery.

After reading online, i did the following:
Tried seeing for bad connections, but i was useless at it. I couldnt even follow the cables properly to earth, etc.. to see if i could make the connections better..
I got a volt meter and tested the battery:
12.8V on its own
12.1 with lights on (full beam)

Then i checked voltage drop for possible bad connections. Connecting the positive to the positive terminal of the battery, the voltage difference was the following:
0V untill the battery connection on the solenoid/relay (as hoped)
12.8V to the starter motor end of the solenoid/relay (as expected)

Then i kept the multimeter setup and tried to e-start the bike.
Voltage drop to the starter motor end of relay dropped to around 3V and then back to 12.8V after the clicking sound as expected (since the circuit got broken) Does this mean the solenoid is in good condition? I saw one 30A fuse and an empty fuse container so i bought another 30A fuse and slot it on the top. That made no difference.

Then today i got a cheap jump cable (max 16A) and turned the ignition on, the engine kill switch to "run" and connected the positive terminal of the battery to the starter motor end of the relay. The starter motor made absolutely no engaging at all and no sound at all. Does this mean it is the starter motor that is broken?
I am afraid that is where the evidence points, but i am hopeful someone here manages to find another solution. I say this because i think a new starter motor would be expensive.

Any help or advice?

Thank you for your patience reading this novel

Your starter is sounding bad. You should be able to run a positive cable to the post on the side of starter and the negative to one of the holdown bolts and it should turn over. If it doesn't then the starter is bad or the connection is corroded badly.If it does turn over then the relay is bad.

When you say "increasing trouble bump starting" do you mean you didn't try the starter motor at all?

Sometimes the starter motor brushes allign so it can't start to turn (to do with the interaction of the electromagnetic fields). The solenoid will click the starter motor won't turn. In that case whack the starter motor and it should provide a shock to offset brushes to allow the fields to interact and the starter motor to spin.

I suggest taking the starter motor out and cleaning it over anyways. They rarely have transient faults.

Thank you for your help.

To answer the questions, every time i turned the ignition off and then tried to restart again, it would click, but not engage. First time took like 5 minutes and twos guys pushing to get it started, second time took 30 minutes and one guy, and the final time it simply didnt bump start after two guys and i tried for 2 hours. (as you may have guessed, i did try the starter every time.
Also once started, bike ran smoothly until next refuel (and ignition turn off)

I forgot to add, when i click to e-start, the lights do NOT dim. That indicates something, just not sure what?

I will try to remove the starter motor and knock it / clean, but am useless. Then i will try the test i did again, but with jjriders suggestion of also connecting a jump cable to the earth. Can anyone point me in the right direction of a tutorial video to getting to the starter motor and removing it for cleaning/knocking? (2002 xt600e)

Thank you very much

Sounds like a stuck solenoid, look for this & give it a whack when you are pressing the button.



Mezo.

When bump starting and not succeeding, was the motor being turned over fast enough(what gear were you trying it in) ? If the battery is below 11.4volts or so, the cdi will cut the spark .No dimming of the light when hitting the e-start button can be that relay or an issue with the starter button switch itself not making good contact. A multimeter on the two wires down on the relay (not the big main ones) to see if juice is sent when the button is pressed.

Are all the saftey switches bypasses? One of those going bad, like the one on the clutch may cause it also.

I'd change the starterrelay and take the startermotor apart.

Thos times that I tried bump starting were mainly on 2nd and 3rd gear. No idea if all safeties were bypassed, i just connected the positive battery to the relay (the one with 2 fuses). I have gotten a service manual today and realised there are two relays between the battery and starter motor so i will try a bypass once more also.

Today it rained all night so i was unable to do any work, but i will during the weekend. I plan on trying to start it and knocking it on the relay, as suggested. I will also try to remove the motor and give it a clean.

I have arranged a visit to the service garage on Wednesday out of desperation, and have given myself the challenge of fixing it myself by then.

Thank you all for the advice. I will follow it as best as i understood it and report back.

That`s a bit tricky to be honest, you need to remove the gear to slide the starter out & by cleaning it people mean you have to split the starter down to its basic components.

And while your inside cleaning it you may find you need a brush set for it, it can be done on the roadway but is more suited to being done in a workshop.

Did you put your meter on the positive terminal on the back of the starter itself to see if you have power getting to it? put the negative to a screw on the engine or the gear shifter, this will prove your engine has ground.

It could be the starter sprag clutch has crapped out (its common) i hope not.

You can read about the subject HERE but don’t let that fill your brain up just yet, all im saying if its not the starter then the next place to look is the one way sprag clutch.

This thread is a perfect example of why its a good idea to fit a kick start to the bike, if only to get you to your destination.

Mezo.

Hi there!

You need to replace that fuse with the correct size 20 amp one.There is a space for a spare fuse next to it i seem to remember. Good luck with sorting out your starting problem

Bill

Yesterday I changed the 30A fuse to a 20A one.

I removed the battery and had a good look at the relay, and couldn't see a way of fitting a multimeter in the secondary wires, but the reason i think it works is because the voltage drop between the positive battery and the wire to the starter motor went repeatedly from 12V to 0v.

The other day it was observed in the multimeter a drop to around 3v and then back up, but yesterday i kept the button pressed for a few seconds and observed the voltage drop all the way to 0v.

I then unscrewed on the left of the motor to access the small end of the starter motor and the gears it turns to start the motor. The gears looked good. My "completely useless" educated guess would say that the starter motor felt a little stiff when i tried turning it.

At this point i feel i am way outside my capabilities or understanding. The only other thing i could do would be to take out the starter motor but i felt I couldn't safely or easily do that.

Thank you all for your help. I will take the bike to the garage on Wednesday and hope for a relatively cheap bill. I will tell everyone what the mechanic says the issue and the fix was, i hope it isn't the starter motor, as i think that will be the most expensive fix.

Sounds like a dodgy starter relay. You can bypass it with jump leads and see if it will turn the starter motor.

If not, then it's probably a bad starter motor.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Ten bucks says the battery’s f*cked.

Mezo.

That's what I first thought.

But he said it won't start with jump leads. Completely dead.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I had a similar problem in Colombia and it turned out to be one faulty cell in the battery. Under no load the voltage was 12.7, but when I hit the starter button it went down to 10.2. And I couldn't bump start it the way it was. Leave your multimeter connected to the battery and hit the starter.