Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
Service manual needed

I found a paper copy on eBay and should have it in a few days. If anyone needs a page or so I'd be happy to copy it and send it. I may eventually copy the whole thing and make it available. They seem to be very scarce.

Steve

OEM Service Manual 84-87 Xt600
Anyone have a PDF copy of the manual. Prefer USA model but would take any available.

Anyone with a older Xt600 or 550 interested in info on a new CDI coming available soon after testing. Fully adjustable ignition advance curve and adjustable RPM limit if desired.

Steve

Last edited by steveloomis; 2 Aug 2013 at 00:30.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 1 Aug 2013
kentfallen's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bexhill, East Sussex, England, UK
Posts: 673
Hello Steve,

I take it that you have already searched the stickies on this sub-forum for the service manual you need?

As you no doubt know, the XT600 series of bikes all used basically the same bulletproof engine.
__________________
Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 1 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
Yes, I have searched and have not found the exact manual that matches my '86 USA bike. Not a Tenere, just a standard XT600. Much of the TT600 is the same, but I noticed the stator/pickup coil ohm readings are different in some aspects. I am having ignition issues and was trouble shooting the coils using info from my Clymer manual. In particular, Clymer says to measure the pickup coil from the red/white to the green white. The readings were way too high so I measured from the center tap green wire to each end of the coil and it fell within the range. The TT600 OEM manual says to measure from the green to the red/white and green to the green/white so Clymer has it wrong. I have found other errors elsewhere as well.

I like the OEM manual's explanation of the deceleration enrichner circuit. Now it makes sense. I just rebuilt two of the carbs and replaced the diaphram/valve but wondered what it actually did.

I am anxious to get my '86 running to see how it performs with freshly cleaned carbs, float levels correct, valves set, 170 lbs compression and new CDI. Last time it ran late last year, it was very hard to start, backfired often and generally ran poorly. I see now that the original CDI was failing back then and now no spark at all and was most likely the cause of hard starting and backfiring. I went ahead and replaced the intake boots as I've learned here and other forums that they responsible for many ill's since they get hard and leak air. So I guess this was a blessing in disguise forcing me to look hard at everything. Now I should be in very good shape once the New Zealand CDI arrives...

With the age of the bikes of that vintage, I feel the CDI's are a major source of problems even before they fail completely. Since I am an electronics tech by trade, I understand why. CDI stands for Capacitor Discharge Ignition. Capacitors do age and dry out therefore losing capacity and therefore store less charge to dump when triggered into the coil to make spark. Makes sense to me...

All of this points to a need to replace and update the CDI. There are a couple of companies that make replacement CDI's now and a third is adapting an existing fully programmable unit to work with the older Xt's. I will be testing one and can report on how it goes. If anyone is interested in this please PM me anytime.

I'll report here how my New Zealand unit performs as it may help someone else diagnose their problems.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 1 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
I have had CDI issues as well with my US '89 XT , I have a spare cdi here but haven't tested it, my bike ran on it. I have an original factory manual, I will never buy a Clymer or Haynes because of the exact reasons (and a few more). Our US stators and pickups are different than the rest of the world I think, I've never seen one that looks like ours and have no idea where to get an actual new one that works. There may be one but nobody has been able to say for sure. You can't return electronics so you'd be out $$$$.

I would like to have an adjustable cdi for it.


My bike would sometimes run fine then suddenly spitter/pop and die. Then it almost broke my ankle due to backfiring.
Right now I have the smallest jets I can find, dropped the needles as far as possible and have the mixture screw turned in tight, plus the nipple on the left intake boot is open to let in air,and it still is running rich(black sooty sparkplug and black carbon in the exhaust. I have rebuilt and cleaned everything 4 or 5 times now, won't lean out.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 1 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
carb cleaning

When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove the jet tube the needle moves up an down in? They(both carbs) have a series of holes that can clog up? Just thought I'd mention that, you probably already know... Other Mikuni carbs have them but have to be driven out and many miss cleaning them. I read thru your thread, has to be very frustrating for you not to mention painful.

I have 2 XT600's an 84 and an 86. All coils check with the manual and I hope I don't have bad trigger coils. That would be a bummer. I can measure AC voltage being generated on the trigger coil, CDI source coil and AC generator coils so I am hopeful a new CDI will solve my "NO SPARK" problem on both bikes.

I will post results of the New Zealand CDI and the one I will be testing for another manufacturer that is fully adjustable. I would think you could set a fairly low value of advance for the starting rpm and hopefully stop any kickback. Let you know.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2 Aug 2013
kentfallen's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bexhill, East Sussex, England, UK
Posts: 673
The best person I know for this problem is = MEZO (Mark).

He's an Anglo-Saxon / Hungarian helpful Aussie.

Haven't seen him posting here lately though.

Why not try sending him a PM using the forum? Here he is: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/members/mezo
I will do it now and ask him to impart his excellent mechanical knowledge of all things XT...

Just sent him a PM.
__________________
Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).


Last edited by kentfallen; 2 Aug 2013 at 12:29. Reason: Update - sent Mezo a PM
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2 Aug 2013
kentfallen's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bexhill, East Sussex, England, UK
Posts: 673
Looks like Mezo (Mark) is still pretty active here -

The Ténéré Forum • View forum - The Ténéré Forums

Perhaps you can register on that forum and ask for advice?

I have seen him help a lot of fellow XT riders with difficult (and annoying) problems like this one.

Looks like he still loves the motherland after all.
__________________
Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
I am already a member over there and know about Mezo. As for mine running rich, I've worked on a dozen other bikes and quads, many with Mikuni's so I do know my way around them pretty good. There just doesn't seem to be any thing wrong with them as far as I can find.

At least it quit backfiring now that I briskly kick it over on full choke three or four time, then turn the ignition on and finally give one full hard kick. 98% it starts that first try, then immediately shut the choke off. An adjustable cdi I could set it to 4 or 5 degree advance to kick then go to 28 to 36 depending on what kind of riding I'm going to do.
Less advance=more torque but loss of high rpm,
more advance = less down low torque but good for revving off-road.


One thing that sound weird on the bike is when giving it a good dose of throttle I can really hear that howl coming from the carbs like there is no airbox attached to them, way louder than I've ever heard.

Can anyone measure the diameter of those ports that the needles go through?

I changed every jet with new ones, ran nylon bristles into all ports and did everything possible to find anything clogged, but all passages seem open. The only thing I can think of is a previous owner drilled out some passageway a little bit that I can't tell or that secondary slide (and jet that I can't get) is leaking fuel when it shouldn't. The fact that the mixture screw needs to be completely shut otherwise is sits and stutters from too much fuel, it baffles me why so rich yet it still needs less fuel at idle. Everyone else uses the bigger jets than what I now have. I did get 49.4miles per gallon on a recent trip with it .Don't know what they usually get.

My Raptor carbs are looking to be a pain to mount and I'm not sure I'll go that route so I hope to just plug up one set of jets(pilot and both mains) and re-drill to a smaller size plus get some new needles from the later carbs to make them fit.

PS Mezo may take offence to calling him a barbarian Nah probably not
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 3 Aug 2013
bacardi23's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: XXX<-Portugal->Azores->Santa Maria (island)
Posts: 1,544
Maybe previous owner changed the needles?? or the needle clip positions..
If float level is set too high you will run over-rich!

If the previous owner need mess around with the jets, that could also cause your problems..

and JJ..why do you say that fitting the raptor carbs is difficult?
I've fitted them on my XT, if you need any pointers just ask!

One thing with the raptor carbs.. in order for them to fit in the XT intake boots you do have to grind a bit off the front ends so it's actually the intake boots holding it in place and not the metal clamps!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 3 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
Yep Bacardi you hit it with the boots for the carbs. I saw that I had to either cut the boots id to get rid of the lip that helps hold the carbs inplace or grind the carb to make them fit. I don't care to mod the carbs because they are worth $200 now if I want/need to sell them and $0 if I grind them. I was keeping an eye out for a good used set of boots to modify since the ones have now are new. Add to that the trouble with making some sort of airbox or whatever to get a filter setup. I won't use pods, just don't care for that setup. It's still in limbo. Maybe I need to rethink the pod filter thing.

I do have to watch what modifications I do to this bike because it is registered as a collector/antique (20yrs old + original factory) so it has to stay close to how it came from Yamaha in 1988. I never have to pay yearly registration this way.

As too the other carbs, all the jets I have replaced with brand new ones except the one on the secondary carb, it is unavailable. The needles on my carbs for whatever reason do not have any clip grooves or even a way to adjust up and down, I have yet to see another setup like mine on ebay.
The secondary carb needle is held in place by a set screw and a holder that allows the need to move just a little bit but no way to adjust. I did cobble some small washers to force both needles down about .02" but they weren't designed to do that and they don't have much play anymore for self aligning. That why I said about getting new needles from the newer carbs(with clip positions) and trying to make them fit in my carbs.

The float level I have changed a little everytime I had the carbs out, right now the level is about .300" below parting surface.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 3 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrider View Post
An adjustable cdi I could set it to 4 or 5 degree advance to kick then go to 28 to 36 depending on what kind of riding I'm going to do.
Less advance=more torque but loss of high rpm,
more advance = less down low torque but good for revving off-road.
The ignition I am speaking of will allow you to set the advance all across the RPM range to what ever you want. I believe it will have the ability to switch between two curves you set so you can just flip a switch to change it on the fly. It will hold more than that but two are readily accessable via switch. This is based on this product for other bikes and should carry this feature as well as it is just an adaptation of an existing product for the two trigger coils on the XT's. I imagine one of the trigger magnet inputs will be ignored and the advance curve derived internally.

You have to think in reverse to understand the operation, Say the 36 degree magnet is used for the trigger, the microprocessor just delays the spark an appropriate amount then fires the coil. So less advance is more delay, more advance is less delay. Advance cannot be more than the 36 degree trigger magnet. There is also a provision to adjust the unit so it is in sync with the flywheel exactly so it KNOWS what degree the flywheel is at when the trigger happens. Very exciting technology. I have a unit on another bike that performs flawlessly.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 3 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
That would be great, if it works I may put one on my Honda XL also if available for that bike.

Too get more advance I was thinking a person could slot the mount point for the pickup, say 2-3 degrees since you could adjust the timing, then for 6 degrees at start you'd program 3 degrees so at 36 degrees it would be 39.

I've played some with this advance alteration on a Chevy V8 and degreeing the cam to different advances and testing how the motor ran. It was fun seeing how much a person could change the torque and hp just by altering the advance.
Just a thought, I tend to tinker too much and always wonder "what if I did ....." , but I learn a lot by trying. I like adjustments
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4 Aug 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Middle USA
Posts: 349
Well you could "tinker" all you want with the advance. Make anything you want all across the range with the adjustable.

Steve
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
XT600E Service Manual Download kentfallen Yamaha Tech 88 7 Oct 2024 13:58
suzuki intruder service manual please? nath23 Suzuki Tech 6 29 Apr 2012 21:06
Service manual for fx650/vigor tigs Honda Tech 1 19 Mar 2012 00:39

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:01.