Having sorted out all my woes with my Yamaha XT600 (for now) I am left thinking that somehow I would be better off with a WR 450, in every way other than initial cost and the service interval.

The 450 is more powerful than thr 600 and has a lower weight, right? surely this makes it a better bike for overlanding than my '87 XT600

On boats with outboard motors when you have two 50hp motors you displace (well the equivalent of) 100hp but only get 50 hp of power, but with nearly double the torque.

in essence with my XT600, its a 600cc single, yet my BMW is an 1150 twin, so each cylinder displaces 600(ish)cc. does this mean that the Twin performs witha similar power to the single?

and does it mean that bikes like the Africa twin, are basically 2x 375cc singles that would have a similar performance to a single 375cc bike?

Do you see where I am going with this?

Anyway anyone got a tip on replacing the spokes on my rear tyre:
Just seen that I am missing a spoke and that it appears to have sheared off at the edge of the rim, so need to replace the bit inside the rim too: Are they loose from the inside, or is this a major issue?

Thanks for now, I guess the answer is to take off the wheel, remove the tyre, and look for yourself.

Cheers G

Truthfully, no.
However, there are a number of threads that discuss the merits of twins and singles.

__________________
Dave

I don't see where you are going either but here are some figures to ponder .

BMW 1150 = 85 hp [at 6750 rpm] and 72 ft lbs torque [at 5200 rpm]
XT 600 = 44 hp [ 6500 rpm ] and 35 ft lbs torque [5500 rpm]
WR450 = 58 hp [at 9000 rpm ] and 36 ft lbs torque [7000 rpm]

1150 vs 600 : twice the engine size and twice the power and twice the torque .As you own both bikes I thought you would have worked this out already .
WR450 makes it's power and torque at higher rpm .

Give me a torquey low revving bike every time .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

The bike is getting ready for sale!

Dodger thanks for the info: It makes sense.

I have noticed that the XT is a leary bike at lower speeds, while the BMW is sedate by comparisson. Yes the power is there, but it doesnt feel like twice the power.

On the WR vs XT I can see it, more torque at lower RPM. Hence better performance and fuel economy where it is need in an overland bike.

As for the single vs twin thing, it was a mechanical thought, comparing twin engines with two outboard motors on a boat, having two engines only improves torque but makes no difference to the top end.

I was dissapointed that my duck had the same top end with 2 60hp as with 1 60hp. when I put on a 90hp, it made a huge difference, but with the two 60's it got up onto the plane with more weight on board.

I was wondering if this held true with motorcycles, ie 2 600's bolted together performing more or less the same as a single 600 but with more torque...


But it isnt!

The design of propellers must be completely different from bikes!! Just kidding.

I suppose the main difference in your "experiences" is the transmission of the effort of two (or more) cylinders via the one crank, compared with the individual effort of multiple independent engines directed to the same "aim" - in your case to get the boat to move through the water.

Or am I missing your drift again?

Leary XT and sedate BMW - Hmm.
Cheers,

__________________
Dave

The WR is a much more focused bike than the XT. Its an Enduro bike, light powerful, water cooled, whilst these are an advantage off road its the long term simplicity of the XT that makes it more suited to extended overland trips. Yes it is heavier and less powerful but its much easier to maintain out on the road and is better suited to bearing the loads of overland travel.

If you can get a back up vehicle to carry youre gear then take the WR and you will have a ball.

Recently I made a trip to Germany to see a diesel bike rally. Three bikes poodling along at about 55-60mph. One 9 hp diesel Enfield, one Enfield Electra and my own 800cc BMW. We were all running at close to teh same RPM. but the diesel bike was getting 160-180mpg, the Electra 80+mpg and my Bmw 57mpg. Why the difference? presumably we were all using about the same power?

Diesel engines are more efficient [more of the "energy" is turned into heat] hence you will always use less fuel .Futhermore diesel engines when lightly loaded will use significantly less fuel than when heavily loaded - petrol engines use about the same whether lightly or heavily loaded .[ for a given rpm] .
You were all using the same power to drag you along [ give or take a bit for aerodynamics and weight ] but the larger engined bikes had more power in reserve .Your beemer has bigger cylinders to fill with fuel and air hence uses more fuel .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

I'm toying with a similar issue. I'm after a kick and or electric start.
The WR450f has both as does the earlier TT600r.
I currently have a BMW R100GS/PD but I just can't see myself doing anything but formed roads on it.
Am I being ridiculous as most roads are formed or do I purchase a bike about HALF the weight, and if so because I want kick as well as electric is the WR450r the best option.
Years ago I had a XR400 and it was a brilliant bike.

Why is the XT easier to maintain than the WR?

Hi Kiwitoby,
There is a good thread in this forum about riding small capacity bikes, mainly around the 250cc mark but 125s get mentioned as well.
Do a search along these lines for some informative discussion of riding smaller bikes.

It seems to me that, yes, most roads, certainly major roads, are "formed" nowadays (and the nature of mankind is such that there will be many more formed roads in the future). So, unless you really want to go off-road, you can get along on tarmac surfaces to just about anywhere - of course, in the end, this depends on where you intend to travel.

On your final question, it has already been mentioned that race-tuned bikes require more attention and they need this more frequently; high state of tuning/compression ratio, revving higher, less oil on board make them maintenance intensive.

Ultimately, there is no perfect, single bike or we would all be riding that one!

__________________
Dave

What about the rim side, are all those spokey things critical or just important? I appear to have lost one, and wanted to know how much of a night mare they are to replace? is it a replace the rim job, or does the base bit pop out the bottom, then thread in another spike, or what?

Sad to say but yesterday was the first time I have ridden off road! No seriously, not since I was 11yo! The XT felt tiny compared to the much larger BMW's. I thought I would ride it to learn more and buy something later.

Fact is it is an awesome bike, small enough to chuck around and gain some confidence offroad with powersliding etc, http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...unmeteryes.gif (something I would not consider on my 1150RT) and big enough to strap some stuff on and head off into the bush. Tonight I am strapping my camera gear going to look for sunset shots in a marsh land "Byway" just because I can

I suggest that you buy a cheap (£600) xt 600/dr600 and then play around with it. you will probably spend about £300 on it and loads of time, but you will sell it for about the same maybe more. That way you wont loose out.

I would not have only one bike, my 1150RT is just too comfortable for motorways, but the XT loves lanes and dirt roads which the rt doesnt turn onto!

On the 400 vs 600 debate, I would go (specifically) for the Yamaha XT600 or Suzuki DR400 (But I would have paid for a Suzuki DR600, cos of a childhood thing!) then sold it and brought one of the XT's.

My needs: A strong bike with a good fuel range, powerful enough to drag camping equipment and cameras there, and in emergency carry my mate out. Must be cheap enough to not really care if I leave it there when it gets swept down a river. Oh and I need two identicle ones. The 84-89 tenere fits the bill.

Look at the website Off-the-road If I had loads of cash, they would recieve a big chunk of it.http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ilies/clap.gif DR400 with a 43litre tankhttp://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/smilies/clap.gif

No, things certainly doesn't work that way with bikes. My FZR400 was an *awful lot* more machine than my old C90, certainly more than the 10cc or so's worth your logic would imply (4x98cc vs 1x89cc, if memory serves).

I've never ridden a WR450, but I suspect it would be a lot more "savage" than an XT; power-to weight ratios work like that, and (multiple) smaller cylinders tend to be more revvy and peaky than a single big cylinder. Off road, more so than on, a "savage" bike can be a massive liability if you don't know how to handle it. Then there's ease of maintenance. The 600 XT lumps are "agricultural", you'll find someone somewhere with the gear to do repairs (and probably quite cheaply) pretty much no matter where you are. The same can't necessarily be said of something more "techno" with liquid cooling and multiple cylinders and high tolerances.

Still, you pays your money, you takes your choice, as my old Gran would say.

Simon

Try this as a start point for knowing more about spokes; a lot of the info applies to motorbike wheels as well:-

Spoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should be able to get by without one spoke (not desirable though in the longterm).

__________________
Dave