Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Andy Miller, UK, Taking a rest, Jokulsarlon, Iceland

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Andy Miller, UK,
Taking a rest,
Jokulsarlon, Iceland



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
XTZ 660 Dry sump has become wet sump!

I've just aquired this 96 bike and oil is pissing out of the breather pipe into the air box. It seems some oil is returning to the frame/tank, but not enough and the crank is filling with oil. So it seems there is a problem on the scavenging side of the oil system.
I don't have a manual yet so is there anything obvious anyone can suggest to check?
Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Well, I don't know your bike/engine but you could start by reading here;-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-stuff-27640

for general advice. Someone more qualified will come along to tell you more.
In the meantime, you don't say anything about the history of the bike; mileage, general condition etc etc and that is relevant, very relevant.

Welcome to here by the way!!

Dave
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 651
Well

assuming you rode it for a while; if insufficient oil is returned to the tank the result is that the primary oil pump will eventually get no oil, with the related stop in lubrication of crankshaft, piston, camshaft etc. This in turn would have been noticeable immediately :-).
How do you know the oil accumulates in the crankcase?

First check that the engine has not been overfilled. Checking oil level on these bikes has a certain wizardry to it, and you would not be the first getting it wrong and overfilling. -> see other posts.

Auke
__________________
Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Thanks and thanks for the welcome.
I am pretty well versed on motorcycle mechanics but in the absence of a manual I thought I would try here first in case anyone else had had the same problem.
This is not a minor case of fluctuating oil levels. When oil is added and the engine started the oil level drops very quickly and starts blowing out of the breather so it is obviously flooding the cranckcase. Some oil is returning top the tank but not enough. I suspect a stuck return valve or pressure release valve or broken internal pipe. The return pipe is located under the starter motor. Is there a seperate oil scavenge pump here to return oil to the tank?

Does anyone know where I can get a manual. It is a 1996 XTZ660

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 651
Mmmm ...

In order really to be 'pumped' (as opposed to being taking into the gas stream from increased blow by) through the breather hose you would have to fill the crankcase with oil up to about the level of the oil filter. Would be (guess) something like 12 liters, unlikely.
The oil pump is actually two pumps, no. 1 lubricating crankshaft and highly critical parts, no. 2 scavenging and lubricating gearbox, clutch etc. No. 1 has a non-return valve, no. 2 does not.

My order of checks would be:
1 - Check oil level -> see earlier posts
2 - Check for increased blow-by or other sources of combustion gas entering in the crankcase: worn valve seals, rings, head or base gasket blown

for pump no. 1 scheme is (german):www.xt600.de Ölkreislauf - Special

for pump no. 2 scheme is
www.xt600.de Ölkreislauf - Special

The case ventilation goes through the balancer shaft (on the level of the oil filter) where the gases cool off, oil vapour is separated and supposed to run back into the crankcase. Only, if the gas flows increase with a worn engine, oil droplets will be taken into the flwo and exit through breather hose.

Auke
__________________
Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Thanks Auke

The schematics were very helpful, although my German is not good.
Your posting prompted me to drain the cranckcase and out drained an amazing 6 litres from the 'dry' sump. I then topped up the tank and ran the engine on tickover for 3 minutes, then drained the tank of another 2 litres of oil. During this time there was, at least, no oil discharging from the breather, so I think blow by can be ruled out. So at least I know it's a scavenge system problem. I've managed to find a manual on ebay so will look further when that arrives.

bob
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 651
Pardon

my disagreement, but having 8 litres (6+2) of oil in your system does not indicate a scavenging problem but an overfilling problem!
Just fill up with the correct amount of oil and she'll be allright.

Or I miss something?

Auke
__________________
Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Auke

The 6 litres came out of the cranckcase alone. I didn't drain the tank so that was more or less full after draining the crankcase, so 12 litres plus in total!
I've got the manual now and it looks like a staight return of the oil from the pump to the tank on the xtz660, with the gears being pressure lubricated from the feed circuit. Will try and get at the oil pump today.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Hi,
What Auke is saying is just fill it correctly, as per your manual - there has been way too much oil in there and that is probably why it has been coming out of the breather - it has to go somewhere when the engine is running!!
That will be the problem (and if it isn't, after getting the quantity of oil to the right level, you can always take the engine apart after that)

Dave
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15 Jul 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
ps Hman, have you read the other threads on here about checking the oil level on XTs, and the related filling technique? - just do a search for those keywords.

Cheers,

Dave
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Hi Dave
Thanks for the post.
Yeah, I've read most of the topping up subjects. look at my 3rd last post and you'll see that I drained the crank, ran it for 3 minutes and accumulated 2 litres of oil in the sump. The oil is just not returning to the tank fast enough.
I've now removed the oil pump. I can blow down the return pipe at the top of the tank and air will come out of the scavenge oil pump port. If I stick my finger over the port and blow, the air goes into the crankcase, so I think there is an internal leak or crack that is allowing oil back to the crankcase.

bob
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Well, I've looked at everything now. The oil pump seems fine. The scavenged oil goes from the pump through an oilway to the other side of the engine. That is fine. It then goes through an oilway running inside the lower LH engine cover and exits out the top. That is fine. It then goes into an oilway in the LH crankcase about 4 inches and exits through the return pipe junction and is taken back to the tank. Here I think is the problem, because just before the pipe junction there is hole that allows oil back to the cranckcase. One would think that this might be a splash feed to lubricate the gears, but the gears are pressure fed from the feed circuit. The manual shows that the oil returns directly from the pump with no exits, so this hole is allowing oil to return directly to the sump and not enough oil is getting back to the tank.
So what is this hole here for? Please anybody!

bob
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26 Jul 2007
Livotlout's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 120
Cool Scavenged Oil - XTZ660

Hi Bob,

My lube diagram from a 94 XTZ660 manuel shows the scavenged oil from the 'hole' you mention delivers oil to the main axle and the drive axle within the gearbox.The gears take their feed from the other side of the pump on the feed side via the filter and oil pipe on the outside of the right hand crankcase.

Best of luck

Alec
__________________
I wanna go back.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30 Jul 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: peterborough
Posts: 7
Thanks Alec

That's strange. My lube chart for a XTZ660 (3YF) shows a direct return from the scavenge pump to the tank, with the feed pump supplying oil to the shift fork shaft, main axle, and drive axle. From the fork shaft and axle it splashes to the clutch and gears.
My theory is that I have this type and that a blanking plug or screw has detached, and the only way to find out is to split the crankcases. Instead I've reamed out the oil passage and installed a brass sleeve with a small hole to line up with the other (just in case) and the problem has been cured.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
XTZ 660 Tenere '94 cold start problem Ivchxtz660 Yamaha Tech 17 2 Oct 2017 11:35
'93 XTZ 660 loses engine power merlyn_f Yamaha Tech 3 4 Aug 2007 18:59

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-14
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:36.