I just want to point to a simple "probability calculation".

Depending on your driving style is the percentage that you will get a mechanical issue low or high.

That your car electric will let you got stuck in the middle of nowhere - yes that can happen.

To a much higer percentage you may end as hostage, got killed during a attack, or die in an accident during your trip.

If you want to add the risk of an electroic failure to your overall calculation - that is up to you...

Surfy

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About Overlanding, Travelogues, Equipment
Trans-Africa over the west coast

oop, reality check needed

vehicle breakdown, err yep, had a few of those. check
vehicle breakdown on vehicle less than 10 years old err yep check
vehicle breakdown in older vehicle on expedition that I fixed myself er yep check
vehicle breakdown on modern vehicle on normal roads without the additional duress of driving in an arduous environment that I couldn't fix myself and needed breakdown recovery, err yep check
taken hostage, err, nope
died in an accident err nope
killed in an attack, err nope

get a grip man!!

Just how I work out the risk of travel.

A vehicle break down is just one of the many risks, I would say a car crash travelling the 1000 odd miles it takes me to get anywhere interesting, is my highest risk of coming to harm.

The main question I ask myself (I take my children)

Are we going to die if we break down and the answer is highly unlikely for the places I travel around, someone will come along, so the risk is purely financial, so I just work out the likely cost of recovery.

I'm not sure where people are travelling where the risks of a breakdown warrants getting all hot and bothered about a few modern electronic's?

Nice to hear from someone who has taken a modern Toyota on an extended trip Surfy

Another observation , its not so much the reliability of electronics, as opposed to the diminished reliability of an older style vehicle, just the level of sophisticated tools needed to diagnose or rectify in less technically advanced areas. The risk following breakdown can be counteracted eg satphone /money. Another factor is fuel quality required by recent emission level driven vehicle specs , some of which can be counteracted prior to trip eg unimog needing software modification for 3rd world travel .
As to where people travel with concern about electronics , I have travelled in outback australia with vehicles at both ends of the spectrum , but as mentioned earlier the hot and bothered bit can be avoided by taking steps to deal with eventualities if the need should arise, where it can be a concern is if the travel is being done with limited resources self reliance is a lot cheaper , and therefore less of a worry . JMHO

Interesting point of view Moggy.

I didn't actually mention the British Army but did mention that i had a soft spot for LR products.

Funnily enough when LAS went from LDV Convoy V8 ambulances to the Sprinters there was actually an increase in breakdowns.

The LDV's were considered unreliable by some. Until the Sprinters costing twice as much showed that most breakdowns were caused by 24/7 usage in dense traffic.

The simple LDV could be fixed with a hammer and gaffer tape the Sprinters could not.

The retired LDV's are now in Cuba and Mongolia still being used.

The ones in Cuba have been there for over 10 yrs now and were over 10 yrs old when they were donated.

My point about considering what the Army use is that they need vehicles that are simple to fix without the need for a workshop and diagnostic equipment.

Depends which Army you’re talking about. Using this can be a bit of a red herring IMHO, I wouldn’t agree in the context of the 1st world that they need to fix them easily without a workshop. Reality is they don’t want them to break in the first place. If they do they’re either abandoned or dragged back to a pretty well resourced workshop. I too have soft spot for LR but as Moggy says the only reason the British use them is political.

As I own one I also have a soft spot (OK Biased opinion!) for G Wagens. Most, including the UK, 1st world Armed forces use them. The oily bits don’t tend to break, sit one next to just about anything else and the sheer size of the drive train components and chassis will convince you, but they did go through an iffy period around 2002 to maybe 2010 due to, yep you guessed it electronics.

I completely agree with the comments about the real risks but of course as it’s a Merc. If anything electronic does fail you’re going to need deep pockets and it will put a bit of a dampener on your day. Up side is no matter where you are you will probably be able to get what you need.

Tom Shepherd did use one extensively and I think he still has it. He did, however, suffer with an intermittent engine management problem that took forever to track down. Just that would wind me in to orbit and put me off going much further than Tesco’s car park.

Just to clarify my comments.
Mine is the last of the old school G Wagens, the only electronics being the ABS, so not a show stopper unless you're trying to get it through the MOT.

I think Merc in general have moved on from the negative Chrysler influence now. Off topic I know but I still really dislike their car range.

I have a buddy in Tennessee who went to school to be a LR mechanic. He fell in love with the mystique of them while working with me in Africa. After working at the dealer for a year or so he told me that they advise new owners of LR's to plan on spending about $5000/year on repairs and maintenance for their new vehicle. After all the work he did on his own LR and on other people's, he recommended all his friends in Africa to avoid LR's and buy Toyota's if possible. I used to love them, but got tired of working on them. I find that though the Defender series are capable off-road, they break down too often. I've been left stranded one too many times in a LR. I now own 3 Toyota's. My 95' UK spec turbo diesel Landcruiser is my favorite of them. It's been driven all throughout Angola, Zambia, Namibia, Bots and South Africa on nasty roads, through hectic river crossings and hasn't let me down once.

OP, I've seen a lot of guys travel overland in Africa in all sorts of vehicles. What continent do you see yourself traveling across? The most common vehicles in terms of parts availability on the African continent are Toyota's and Land Rovers hands down. Stay clear of Merc's unless you're going with the big trucks. My buddy has a twin turbo G-wagen in Angola and after 5 years he's trying to unload it because of how quickly it chews up parts. If you're looking to do anything in North or South America, you'd do well with a Ford, Jeep SUV, Chevy or Toyota. My experiences in Brazil and Argentina showed plenty of parts availability for these manufacturers. I don't know much about Asia, but I'm guessing if you go with a Toyota or LR, you'll have parts availability more so than an American make.

Good luck on whatever you choose! May your feet always find solid ground beneath you.

I presumed the British army just because very few others use them, which rather proves the point! The wolf is of course also a very different beast to those available to civvies, which is why Ranulph Feinnes specified wolf spec vehicles for his round the world trek.

The British Army don't mend their own vehicles anymore. Wolfs were under contract from landrover, Army mechanics weren't allowed anywhere near them.

The new sprinters are not good. Mercedes quality seems to have really taken a dive over the last decade. My mate worked for merc man and boy, from apprentice to workshop manager. He now runs his own garage and advised me not to by a merc van when my van needed replacing!


BTW, I am also a landie fan, I have owned series, defenders and even a 101, but their reliability and build quality means that now I own Toyotas. I would love another landie, but at the moment I need more than they can deliver.

I had hoped when Ford took over we would see a change in the policy of how landrovers are built. A nice big Iveco engine and development it so desperately needs from a Bona Fide commercial vehicle builder, but it didn't happen. Now it's in the hands of another manufacturer also with good commercial credentials, but the picture seems unchanged.

It breaks my heart TBH the way landrover have gone, and soon we will see nothing but SUVs built for taking the kids to school from them.

IMHO what they should be doing is developing a truck like the Hilux, with a 3ltr engine and decently made but it seems most manufacturers are bowing to price pressure and dumbing down the quality of their products. Commercial quality doesn't seem to exist anymore. Navara, Amarok etc all have significant reliability and build quality issues.

Couldn't agree more, moggy, I have a soft spot for Landies, the view and ride are the best but an episode of drowning the electronics(under the seat, what were they thinking?) and the corrugated dirt roads I live on stretched the friendship. Still, I have a plan someday, when the bike gets a bit much, to buy a late model Range Rover in Britain and with a few minor tweaks, drive it home to Aus.

if you knew the electronics were under the seat , why didnt you do something to protect them , I did with my 3.9i 110 , and had no probs in floods or creeks in Oz ? What was the corrugations problem , as i found the defender to be about the best 4x4 on the bush roads ? I do agree with you tho LR seem to be losing the plot with being able to build a LR in the fashion that got the original reputation . They seem more interested on putting electric windows on defenders than putting the ecu in a sensible place !

In 2011 (last time I saw them up close) The French Gendarmerie had a few Defenders running about in the Alps.

The Italian Army and Carabinieri also have Defenders, or they did have back in 2006 which was the last time I saw them.

But, never mind all this looking back stuff; what are LR current plans for the replacement for the Defender?

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Dave

like I said, very few!

I don't think there is anything in the pipeline to replace the defender. They aren't bidding on the contract to replace the WMK and as far as I can ascertain they are more interested in chasing a passing (albeit long time passing!) fashion fad for SUVs then investing in long term commercial markets.

On the subject of electronics, I was covering a country show one time and we were next to the landrover stand. The technician there let on they had been unable to start one of the rangies that morning. Even with all their technical kit and knowhow it had taken a couple of hours to find out the problem was caused by water in a headlight making the ECU shutdown.

Landrover and electronics. 2 words that should never appear in the same sentence together!