As I've not yet bought my expedition vehicle I'm fortunate enough to be able to choose which fuel to use. So I'm wondering, which would be better for a trip out of Europe through the Ukraine, Russia, Kazakstan and Mongolia?

I can see that diesel has its advantages - better mileage and better low down torque, less volatile; but then petrol is cleaner if I'm storing it in jerrycans

And given modern diesel engines does dirty diesel pose more of a risk to engine health than low grade petrol? And as for parts of the year the temperatures are below 0°C is diesel rarer because of the gelling problems?

What would anyone recommend?

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Diesel engines actually put out less noxious gasses than petrols, but more particulates in the form of smoke, which is why some people think they are dirtier. petrol is cleaner to store as any spileage rapidly evaporates. it's really not practical to carry diesel in the vehicle as a spileage will stink for months (don't ask me how I know!!). but then petrol is significantly more dangerous to cart about.

In terms of availability both are widely available in russia. Many of their older trucks run on big petrol engines, most with gas conversions. If you are going down the petrol route get a gas conversion, it is widely available and obscenely cheap. diesel is cheaper than petrol, which is relatively expensive, but more than gas.

Diesels are inherantly more reliable, as they don't have all that electrical gubbins to make a spark. also they are better in water, and you may end up doing a bit of wading where you are going. depending on the weather conditions if it is mega cold diesel waxing may be an issue, although this also depends on the vehicle of course.

The environment thing is rather overplayed, but it gives the government a good excuse to tax us. less than 1.5% of the UKs total carbon emissions come from vehicles. the biggest poluters in the northern hemisphere tend to be countries with lots of industry, because that is the main source, and eastern europe unfortunately tops the list, but your vehicle, regardless of what your choose, will not be responsible for a single dead daisy!

I have run both petrol and diesel in eastern europe with no problems, but have gone no further east than Kazan.

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

I would personally opt for a diesel - what type of vehicle are you looking at?
Land Rover, Land Cruiser, similar or a larger vehicle?

Diesel would give you much great range and an aux tank would improve that even further - possibly negating the need for jerries. However, if you are going to have to carry jerries, again, my choice would definately be diesel - far less risky, and as long as you take jerries with newish seals you shouldn't have a problem. You can get spare jerry can seals from many of the surplus places. Far less risk then of a spillage and less risk from combustion, that you get with petrol.

Where waxing may be/become an issue find out what the locals do.
As for the low quality of fuel, on a diesel it is easy to add an extra filter sedimenter to the fuel line and to stop the build up of carbons etc in your engine take a couple of small bottles of a fuel additive with you.

Chris

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ChrisC

I/'m,
Well now what are your plans, send me a PM if is too soon to tell all.
What you ask is very tantalizing.

Chris

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Chris

If you carry and use a suitable additive ,then diesel fuel gelling in sub zero temps shouldn't be a problem .
Kerosene can be added to diesel to prevent gelling [up to 20% mixture] also petrol can be used in emergencies but don't go mad with it .
An emergency cure -- "Meltdown" -- is available in Canada that will unclog gelled up fuel lines ,there may be something similar in Europe.
Fuel line heaters can be fitted .
But generally speaking ,the local diesel fuel should be adequate for the climatic conditions .
A lot of the truckers around here use two stroke oil in their diesel to lubricate injectors ,this is a consequence of the low sulphur diesels we use .

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

I had a brand new jerry leak over the inside of my vehicle despite it being stored upright! test them before you leave, in the garden, not the vehicle!!

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

If you are using jerries then of course check the seals - then buy some new spares and check them also!

Chris

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ChrisC

I agree with the above comments, diesel is far better, for the reasons stated, less electrics, less volatile fuel, better fuel consumption, low down torque etc etc.

I run Land Rover diesel and petrol engines, and would always choose the diesel for overlanding.

The bad point about the latest generation of modern diesels is there complexity - very high pressure (2400 bar +) common rail pumps, with complicated (expensive) multi stage electrically timed injectors and variable valve timing, variable nozzle turbos etc - let alone all the controlling electronics for these systems - arent really good if they pack up in the middle of nowhere - your local bloke who repairs 1st or maybe 2nd generation diesels will not have a clue with the latest 3rd & 4th generation diesels.

Admittitley alot of the problems with modern engines are sensor related - the engines are generally not bad - but my preference is for a fairly simple diesel, that can be field maintained.

As for the jerrycans, - they leak mainly (apart form old seals) due to the ambient temperature when filled - if you fill them when its cold/cool, as the ambient temperature rises, the air/vapour pressure inside increases and may cause a leak, best to vent the pressure at the hot point of the day. ( point them down wind and let the contents settle before opening)

Moggy - did the seal fail under pressure do you think ? thats a strange one !

Theres lots of duff ex military metal jerrycans around, buy newer ones if you can - I know because I used to get rid of the old duff ones in the forces!!!

Dodger - do you know if they are going to get higher cetane diesel over here in North America ? - Ive heard someone mention it the other day....

Cheers
Grif

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Just carry a few spare fuel filters if you think you will run into dirty fuel. I recently had a problem with tallow in my diesel fuel - a common back load for fuel tankers in Australia!! Clogged up fuel filters are easy enough to change, even put in a see through pre filter.

Waxing wont be a problem unless you buy a Summer blend of diesel and then head up into some high country with below zero temps. Buy whatever the locals are using and you wont go far wrong. If you are really concerned about waxing there are a few ways to solve it - none 100% safe, best I've seen was to use a camping gaz light under the engine, the heat coming off was sufficient to stop the fuel waxing in the lines. The other is just to boil up a large bucket of water and pour that over the fuel lines - less reliable.