Okay, so I lay out the dough for a 07 GS Adventure, it's my second BMW and I liked my last so good I kept it (K 1200 LT). In 100K's the LT had one hiccup with a fuel pump, but that was about it. My thoughts were that these Beemers truly are a reliable machine, ergo buy an Adventure, no worries. My riding style is quick but not trashy, I respect everything that has to whir about, my downshifts are smooth, I accelerate quickly, but no more than any other rider. In a nutshell I'm a pretty sedate rider. So am I about to grind? Yeah... Less than 10K the transmission input shaft shears in half. I'm told it's an old metallurgical fault going back to the 1150's. BMW treats me like a prince and fixes it up 0$. Now I'm at 16K and I get this little vibration during downshifts that feels like a bum throw out bearing. Today I pull out to pass a cage and whoa! monumental clutch slip! I know that BMW will fix what ails, but jeeze, I'm planning an 08 ride into the North West Territories and my confidence is really starting to wane. I have no grind about warranty etc., my grind is why I would be loosing a clutch at 16K when there's no abuse involved and if BMW knew about metallurgical faults with shafts way-back- when why didn't they nip that one in the bud before 2007!? Somebody tell me I'm being way too picky and just get on with the program. Why do I picture myself on the side of the Dempster with my thumb out...

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Ride Safe...Stu

It's a concept branded BMW owners can't except.

I have a friend here just up the road who forked out for a new 1150GS Adventure like yours. So far, under warranty he has had the gearbox and clutch replaced once, as well as the output shaft and bearings.... (I think... there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth during the story telling) plus some other stuff...in under 22,000km. Now there is a vibration, like yours. After many phone calls and emails, the local dealer has admitted there is a "design fault" with the Adventure. The extra rear suspension travel loads up the front end of the driveshaft and back of the gearbox. The vibration is particularly bad in fourth gear. BMW's answer? Don't use fourth gear so much!!!
It seems the answer is to fit the ordinary GS shock to reduce travel.. but then the ordinary GS is, well, more ordinary and when you have forked out your hard-earned sheckles for the super-duper-go-anywhere model, that's what you expect to have. And it also ignores the numerous people with warranty claims on the back end out the "ordinary" model as well.

I think your problem is you have gone from without a doubt THE most reliable BMW model range (the K-series) to the one that seems to have had the most finger-pointing model range (oil-head). I know I'm about to dust off the flame-suit, but I have had a very large majority of R1100-1150 owners who have stayed with us or who are local riders I know well that have had serious problems with their transmissions.

And this is from someone who owns three BMWs....

Regards

Nigel in NZ

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The mouth of a perfectly contented man is filled with . -- 2200 BC Egyptian inscription

Okay Guys, I'm back from the Beemer barn. and I have a headache, oy. Here's a question and I think I know the answer - but it wasn't the one I got from the tech... Clutch slip. The tech took my bike out and afterwards told me that after lifting the front wheel off the ground in 1st, and full power in 2nd offered no clutch slip and that is where you get the most tourque load on the clutch... I didn't say anything because I rarley question someone unless I already know the correct answer. Buuut...My take on maximum torque (on the clutch assembly) would come when you're in top gears, lets say 6th @ 4000 RPM, even 5th @ 4500. Now roll on the right hand. Would you not be entering the maximum engine torque band and offering the largest driveline resistance to that tourque simply by being at speed and under full load? Lifting a front wheel in lower gears is simply driveline gearing and I would say offers little clutch loading compared to a high speed roll on. I really don't mind if you tell me I'm full of it, but counter with a good argument.

Yup, the front disc(s) do need to be replaced, they'll try to get warranty. Bets anyone? Front discs at 16K (99% Highway no less). Go figure. Actually these guys have treated me wonderfully and they have my full confidence, I think.

The tech says that there may be other clutch issues but they won't be able to get me in for a full look at until Nov. 1, which may sound completely daffy, but with my schedule it fits, so I don't mind. It would be a different story if I were in Butthole, North West Territories. On the way home I slipped the clutch a bunch of times, I told myself "hey, this is like riding an automatic! Woohoo, I got that option for free!" Of course if I wanted an automatic I would have bought a Chevy.

Dazed and confused and reving somewhere between 3000 and 6500, ocassionally.

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Ride Safe...Stu

I almost forgot this, but you guys are too much. Ha! Anyone can bash anything that has more than two moving parts. Now, if you want to compare the cost of the two moving parts, well, I can see how arguments start...

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Ride Safe...Stu

Hi Stu,
Here's my very humble understanding of torque, often mixed up with discussions of horse power so I will stay away from that. A mechanical engineer can come on here and correct me as necessary.

I don't believe that torque has any direct relationship to the speed at which the bike is travelling along the road. It is related to the engine revolutions directly (and the design of the engine); so, you need to see the torque curve for your engine design and see at what revs it develops the maximum torque - you will have an instinctive feel and understanding for this already from riding the bike, but you may not know exactly what the book answer is, any more than I do for any of my bikes. It is torque that produces that surge of acceleration that we all like!

So, the tech guy may be as right as you; he develops the max torque at a low road speed and you do it at a higher road speed; I am taking this "argument" to apply to the torque developed by the engine - I can't see how that is different from the torque passed to the clutch, in the way that you discuss - that's the only way it is transmitted to the rear wheel.

V twins/Boxers etc will generate good amounts of torque low down in the rev range as a rule and then the graph will start to tail off at quite a low rev value compared with, say, the inline 4 cyl bikes.

I hope this helps BTW!

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Dave

Oh yes, on this business of BMW warranties.

At great risk of someone trying to shoot me down (which does not bother me in the slightest) there is quite a bit of opinion among the UK Beemer riders that I know (and I know a few via the UK BMW club) as follows.

Modern BMW bikes are not really all that great on reliability (no statistics here, remember this is an opinion which has been expressed to me in conversation by owners of BMWs, principally 1200GSs) but what they are good for is the warranty cover. It is the "great" service under warranty which leads to the reliability reputation + the BMW history of earlier models.
There are shedloads of 2 year old 1200GSs on the forecourts of BMW bike shops here in the UK, because the owners change them over every two years and, thereby, have a permanent warranty cover which includes comprehensive breakdown cover anywhere in Europe.

The reason I mention this is because I can't see why your dealer is unsure if work can be done under warranty.
As a reality check (this is definitely known to me) one dealer here in the UK will take every opportunity to carry out work on bikes under warranty and charge that work back to BMW Germany - it is as simple as that over here; they just love poking around on one warranty claim, or while the bike is being serviced, in order to find anything else that can be done under warranty.

IMO then, you put the pressure on your dealer and get everything possible changed/repaired under warranty.

Hope this helps a bit,

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Dave

I seem to recall that there used to be a website for "BMW lemons" here in the UK - I was aware of it a few years ago when an acquaintance of mine had a lot of bad experiences with a brand new and very expensive Beemer car. Anyway, I can't find it so,
maybe this is of interest:-

Faults on the BMW R1200GS

ps I still like the F650GS that my wife owns, but it is a rotax engine.

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Dave

Thanks Dave, you make sense here. I suppose low end torque is the same as high end torque depending on how it's measured. Low end torque could be manifested by a perfect wheelie, unfortunately my high end torque is measured in clutch slip these days. Regardless, I agree, torque is torque and clutch loading is clutch loading. To "argue" I would say that the 115nm of torque produced by the mighty boxer happens (memory here) slightly over 5000 RPM. I know that I can get the front end to be real light at 2-3000 rpm, so I would think that full load torque should be manifested in a zero slip high speed sustained roll on that could be presumably be held right up to red line depending on wind and grade resistance.

Does that make sense?

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Ride Safe...Stu

Thanks for that link Dave. Now I need therapy. I know that the shaft / seal issue I had has something to do with my clutch slip... When you're sitting at the side of the road, (backwoods Quebec) in the rain with a bazillion Hogs flying past (all taking pictures) and all you can smell is gear oil (yuck) you know some of it landed where it best not.

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Ride Safe...Stu

Here, here. I agree. The legendary reputation of white propellers against a blue sky would be a smoking heap if it weren't for shops fixing warranty claims. Bit of a mixed blessing though, simply because if the factory engineers were doing the right thing we wouldn't be having this discussion. It seems to me that there are 'whoop" faults and then there are OLD faults that never seem to get rectified until it becomes a warranty claim. In today's world that makes me scratch my head. Considering how many brand new mistakes that could be made, why make the same mistake twice? Seems a tad counter productive to me...

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Ride Safe...Stu

A fantasy – Friday afternoons

Scene 1:

The BMW factory in Berlin: the immigrant worker does not own a motorcycle, not even a BMW – he cannot afford one and he finds it quite hard to understand why anyone would want to ride such a thing when there are very comfortable 4 wheeled vehicles in abundance (he can’t afford one of those either). He is employed on a temporary contract to swing a hammer all day long, thereby inserting gearbox bearings into the back end of BMW boxers as they go past him on the production line. Most of the time his thoughts are elsewhere – back in Poland or Turkey with his family to whom he sends most of his wages. He earns “not a lot” and by sending the cash out of Germany he does not have much money to live upon. His days and nights are a grind with very little to look forward to, other than the satisfaction of providing cash for his wife and kids.
He has no formal mechanical training and is very competent at swinging that hammer.
When frustrated, it is quite stress-relieving to swing a hammer.


Scene 2:

A BMW dealership in a West European country; a fully workshop trained mechanic is to replace a failed gearbox bearing with another of exactly the same type under warranty. He may, or may not, know the owner of the bike, depending on the level of interest shown by that owner and the policies of the dealership in allowing customers to enter the workshop area – Health and Safety considerations are paramount here and are a very effective tool used by the front of shop sales staff to prevent the customers from communicating with the mechanics.
The workshop is well equipped, the mechanic is well paid and gets home to his family every night at the end of his working day. He more or less enjoys his work (except the odd occasion when the suits come in to the workshop) and he loves to ride his Harley D at weekends.
He is a time-served mechanic, has been at the workshop for quite a few years and he gets to work on a variety of BMW bikes thereby solving a range of problems. Unfortunately, this may be a bit of a rush job because there are three others waiting for the same work to be done, it is Friday already and all of those owners want the bike for Saturday to go touring on their annual vacation.

Scene 3:

A BMW owner is about to change the gearbox bearing on his bike; he is an absolute enthusiast, having owned multiple BMWs over many years and he has always done his own maintenance routines and repairs, once the bike went out of warranty of course. He has all of the necessary tools to hand in a well set up garage at home and he has all the time in the world available to him to do this task, because he has other bikes to ride while this one is off the road.
For a hobby, he takes bikes to bits and puts them back together.
He may be a time-served mechanical engineer or he knows one, who happens to be his second-best friend, via the BMW club of which he is a member.

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Dave

Stu,
The disc problem you have could be Variable Disc Thickness VDT, and it fits with the way you ride the bike.
VDT is caused because the disc has run out and because of this it will wear on the high spots as it sweeps past the brake pad. In my experience a disc run out can be in manufactures tolerance and still suffer. If it is not too late you could check the run out on the discs and measure the thickness around the circumference.
Another school of thought thinks disc runout results in variation of brake pad contact pressure causing some heat thickness variation.
It happens a lot and many riders put it down to warp discs.
I would say the replacement discs could suffer the same fate.

Steve

Thanks Steve, makes sense as there was a vibration from the git-go, I thought it was just pads seating in. I wonder if the disc(s) could be turned true? They do it with auto discs all the time. Perhaps the vent holes would prove a challenge, not sure about that. Funny thing here, my LT had a rear disc that squealed like a banshee and they replaced it right away even though it was as smooth as silk, but get one that's lumpy and they need to prove it for warranty. Go figure. I suppose a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.

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Ride Safe...Stu

The guy I ride with most frequently is on his second 1200GS; he loves them and is looking forward to getting the new model in 08 when his current bike will be 2 years old and his European warranty expires.
Both of his bikes have had warranty work done at around 15000 - 16000 miles.

The first had the rear drive changed - all of it.
The second had the gear box seal changed and, while they were in there, the clutch was replaced - all of it.

In each case of warranty work, the dealer was excellent - no quibbles attitude and "can we change anything else for you while it is in the workshop?" approach.

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Dave