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Photo by Sean Howman, The Pamir highway in an unseasonably cold late October, Tajikistan

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Sean Howman,
The Pamir highway in an unseasonably
cold late October, Tajikistan



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  #1  
Old 19 Aug 2011
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New Spy Shot: 2012 Water-Cooled BMW R1200GS
Brand New Spy Pictures of the New Watercooled BMW R1200GS!!!

2012 BMW Street Bike Models Picture 2 of 2 - Motorcycle USA

Who wants one and who doesn't?
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  #2  
Old 20 Aug 2011
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Ask me again in a year or two. No more testers club for me.

Andy
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  #3  
Old 22 Aug 2011
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Question
What are the odds that the new '12 GS 1200 will coincide with Long Way Up?
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Old 22 Aug 2011
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Looks like BMW swapped the FD and exhaust over... other then that what changes?

Would be good if they had a simple version of the 1200 where there is no sophisticated electronics... oh, that's right it's called the 1150GS !!!
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Old 22 Aug 2011
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Why? WHY?

Well if they were walking away from the GS (Road and track?) ethos with the 1200, with the 1200 W/C they're bounding away from it now.

Let me get this straight: a water cooling jacket adding more weight in crankcases, water pumps, bigger rads, fans, and 2 litres of coolant onto a bike that is already too heavy for one-up overlanding. Not to mention the bonus of an easy to crack boxer twin engine.

For what? More BHP, tighter tolerances, and perhaps better MPG?

The only one that serves the overlander of those is the fuel consumption: better they use some of the electripockery from the F800GS twin to make the big ADV more economical.

Nope.
For me this is just them trying to play up to the other sports tourer in disguise: the Yam 10-12.

I mourne the passing of the 1100s and 1150s... Putting them on a diet to shed pounds would have been such a better move IMHO....
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Old 6 Sep 2011
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Motorcycle News MCN did a bit of a rundown on the what and why of the new prototype the other week. Chucked it out so don't have the article but might be on their website. It was quite interesting (considering it was about a GS). Stand by for incoming!
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
Ask me again in a year or two. No more testers club for me.

Andy
Here, here, I'll second that thought!
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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So they're taking something that is already overcomplicated and unreliable and making it even more complicated and potentially even more unreliable.

The dealers and already licking their lips I'm sure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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So they're taking something that is already overcomplicated and unreliable and making it even more complicated and potentially even more unreliable.
I'm not sure if watercooling is complicated and unreliable, it has been tested for a few years both on bikes and cars.
If you look at bikes for trial/enduro/mx where weight is a bigger issue then on an adv-bike they all use watercooled engines.
Air-cooled engines and carbs will soon be history, emission-laws and the demand for progress are two reasons for this.

I think what we are looking on here is a prototype for the next bestselling adventure-bike and it will probably be on the top-5 list in Europe.
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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i'm not sure if watercooling is complicated and unreliable, it has been tested for a few years both on bikes and cars. :d
if you look at bikes for trial/enduro/mx where weight is a bigger issue then on an adv-bike they all use watercooled engines.
Air-cooled engines and carbs will soon be history, emission-laws and the demand for progress are two reasons for this.

I think what we are looking on here is a prototype for the next bestselling adventure-bike and it will probably be on the top-5 list in europe.
+1 ....^
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Weight is an issue here too. The paper press will crucify any manufacturer who's bikes get heavier. In order to add the weight of the coolant, pump, radiator, catastrophic perverter and so forth they'll have to remove something else to compensate. You can bet on a smaller tank, thinner castings made of nastier monkey metal and so on.

It will be a best seller for certain, but the market for new machines with a certain badge and a certain look is quite different to machinery meant for actual use. It's a smart move by BMW to put some distance between the G650, F800GS and R1200GS, the majority of big twin riders want a tourer with a better view of the road.

Andy
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Wait, why does a boxer engine need water cooling? From a technical point of view I mean because I just don't get it.
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Weight is an issue here too. The paper press will crucify any manufacturer who's bikes get heavier. In order to add the weight of the coolant, pump, radiator, catastrophic perverter and so forth they'll have to remove something else to compensate. You can bet on a smaller tank, thinner castings made of nastier monkey metal and so on.
This is a completely new engine and gearbox-design the weight might be more or less the same as the old engine.
When it comes to range GS is usually on the top, this engine will have lower consumption so it would be strange if range was sacrificed.

There are a few details on the new engine and gearbox I don't like but time will show how it works in real life. (wet-clutch, gearbox and engine share oil etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
It will be a best seller for certain, but the market for new machines with a certain badge and a certain look is quite different to machinery meant for actual use.
"The market for new machines with a certain badge and a certain look" is now the biggest market here in Norway. So far this year they have sold 90% bikes more then Suzuki and I would expect the market to grow even more when the boxer gets a power-boost.
When I check the mileage on used BMWs I usually find that they have higher mileage then the other brands, in my world that means they are "actually used".

On the other hand I have no plans to buy a wethead.
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Wait, why does a boxer engine need water cooling? From a technical point of view I mean because I just don't get it.
Better control of the temperature gives less pollutions, it also makes it possible to make a more powerful engine with less petrol consumption. The engine might also last longer and it's possible to downsize some of the parts.
But I still doubt that the first wethead will be as powerful as HP2 sport, maybe 125hp.
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Old 12 Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
I'm not sure if watercooling is complicated and unreliable, it has been tested for a few years both on bikes and cars.
If you look at bikes for trial/enduro/mx where weight is a bigger issue then on an adv-bike they all use watercooled engines.
Air-cooled engines and carbs will soon be history, emission-laws and the demand for progress are two reasons for this.

I think what we are looking on here is a prototype for the next bestselling adventure-bike and it will probably be on the top-5 list in Europe.
I didn't mean it was complicated. But they are MORE complicated than simple air/oil cooling. There are many more components involved. Of course, to get more power or to reduce tolerances in the manufacturing then you need better cooling. BMW always got away with this for so long as their boxer design works very nicely with air cooling as I'm sure you know.

Any anyway... BMW don't have a great record with water cooling as with reliability with any of their models. Anyway, I'm sure it will be on the back of a trailer for electronic's and shaft seals before the radiator packs in


Will it be a top 5 seller....... You bet it will.
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