Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > BMW Tech
BMW Tech BMW Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to BMW riders only.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22 Oct 2010
Ekke's Avatar
HU CanWest Meeting Organiser
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Redwood Meadows, AB, Canada
Posts: 358
Q-Tech Experience?

I'm thinking of double plugging my '89 R100GS for the usual benefits associated with that (easier starting, cleaner running, ability to run higher compression ratio). The Q-Tech kit seems like a great solution since they modify the ignition advance in the "bean can". That sounds like the trickiest part of the whole switchover. Does anyone have experience with the Q-Tech kit? Q-Tech Homepage and click to Zundung for the 2-valve boxer, item 123. 500 euro seems a reasonable price for a complete kit that I could conceivably install myself.

I've also heard that Rick at Motorrad Elektrik has come out with an all electronic ignition advance unit. Motorrad Elektrik Replacement Starters Airheads 1977-1995 Call now! 256-442-8886 He says that the dual plug version will be in stock by the end of the month. That also sounds like pretty nifty idea. Any experience with this Alpha Ignition system or is it just too new?

When I contacted Siebenrock (OK, Eurotech, the importer in the States) about their 1000 cc upgrade kit and asked if the 9.5 compression ratio could run on regular fuel I got the response that it would run fine with 91 octane and the occasional fuel additive. (In North America 87 is "regular" and 91 is "premium").
:confused1:
OK, so it needs Premium and an additive? That doesn't sound world travel capable to me. So, will dual plugging allow the Siebenrock kit to run on poor fuel? I've heard nothing but good things about the Siebenrock kit with its lighter, balanced pistons and a little extra power/torque so this is something that piques my interest. At the same time on our next trip (from Europe to Australia) we might encounter situations where low octane fuel is all that is available as happened when we rode through Africa.
__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

www.ekke-audrey.ca
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22 Oct 2010
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
When I contacted Siebenrock (OK, Eurotech, the importer in the States) about their 1000 cc upgrade kit and asked if the 9.5 compression ratio could run on regular fuel I got the response that it would run fine with 91 octane and the occasional fuel additive. (In North America 87 is "regular" and 91 is "premium").
:confused1:
OK, so it needs Premium and an additive? That doesn't sound world travel capable to me.
There is no easy answer here. I've used the Siebenrock upgrade kit for 60kkm and I have not had any big problems with pinging, I've had some tendencies on bad fuel but as long as I've increased the revs easily it has been okay. So for me this hasn't been an issue, but I've heard about the opposite.
I've also heard that 91 octane is minimum and I think that's 91RON which will be similar to 87AKI (check: Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) 91AKI will then be 95RON and if that's true you should be okay.
Some modifications to the cylinder head will also decrease pinging, but I have not tested it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
I'm thinking of double plugging my '89 R100GS for the usual benefits associated with that (easier starting, cleaner running, ability to run higher compression ratio). The Q-Tech kit seems like a great solution since they modify the ignition advance in the "bean can". That sounds like the trickiest part of the whole switchover. Does anyone have experience with the Q-Tech kit? Q-Tech Homepage and click to Zundung for the 2-valve boxer, item 123. 500 euro seems a reasonable price for a complete kit that I could conceivably install myself.
I installed Q-tech ignition a few weeks ago on my "new" engine but sadly I've only tested it for 150 km (it's snow up here). The kit seems to work as intended but I've done a lot of modifications to the engine so it's hard to tell...
The bike starts easily at 0°c (even if the choke only works on one side, have to fix that), and it runs like a train.

My kit was not bought from Q-tech directly but it uses the Q-tech ICU and the same way of modifying the bean can. Q-tech is a nice company with a good reputation and most German tuners use their kits. They do also have a more sophisticated kit but I don't think it's listed on their webpage. I have bought some other parts from them and have always been happy.

To modify the bean can is difficult and IMHO this is one of the reasons why people have different experiences about dual ignition - they all have different ignition-curves.
I would say that unless you have a jig where you can test-run the bean-can it's close to impossible to get a decent result. Yes, a few have managed it but many have failed. Q-tech have the knowledge and the equipment, they will modify your bean-can so it works.

There are other more modern systems but frankly I like the simplicity of this system and the ICU can be replaced by the original (or even some car-ICUs) in an emergency. The bean can itself rarely fails and you can also get a spare hall-sensor from Q-tech.
Some of the other systems place electronic components behind the alternator-cover but I don't think that is a good solution. Heat and vibration is the best way to kill electronic components.

The coil-setup on my bike is a bit different but here is how it looks:



Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22 Oct 2010
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Posts: 317
Siebenrocks kit and converted heads (for unleaded petrol) works very nice -


Dual ignition allows for poor petrol.

Silent Hektik and Omega Ignition have very good reputation - far better than using a converted ITU.

You may consider an alternator up-grader - 280W is not much... and charging starts at about 3000rpm (which is far above city traffic revs...).
BMW Motorcycle Aftermarket Alternators

All you really need to do is convert the heads to allow for un-leaded petrol.
If you know that you will be driving in areas with poor petrol; 8.2:1 pistons - polish the surface inside the combustion chamber and grind down all sharp edges and you should be able to run at 91 octane with single plugging.


The Egyptian Police did this:
R80 with R100 heads, 44/40 valves, Bing 40 carbs.
=> I think this will be about 7:1 which will allow for bad petrol of low quallity.


For full conversion with all its ups and downs:
- Alibaba have given you a very detailed description -
__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22 Oct 2010
Ekke's Avatar
HU CanWest Meeting Organiser
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Redwood Meadows, AB, Canada
Posts: 358
Great information (as always) Ali Baba. I think Q-Tech also puts the second coil in the same location you've got it. They're claiming their new coils are a bit smaller and will easily fit.

I too like the idea of having Q-Tech doing the changes to the ignition advance, they've got a good history of doing it correctly.

I would imagine that the Siebenrock 9.5 to 1 kit would work just fine with dual plugging even on lower octane fuel.
__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

www.ekke-audrey.ca
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22 Oct 2010
Ekke's Avatar
HU CanWest Meeting Organiser
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Redwood Meadows, AB, Canada
Posts: 358
Thanks Albert, I guess we were writing at the same time.

I upgraded to Motorrad Elektrik's Omega kit with 400W a few years ago before our Africa trip and it is working perfectly.

I had no troubles with the current 8.2 compression going through Egypt, Sudan et cetera. I'm glad you concur that 9.5 will work with dual plugging. I think I'll go to dual plugging first and then to the higher compression pistons that way I might be able to isolate any improvements. Just like Ali Baba though, the snow is starting to fly here too and I'll probably have to do winter testing with the dual plug and then the Siebenrock kit since I would like to have the bike ready for the next trip by spring of 2011.
__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

www.ekke-audrey.ca
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22 Oct 2010
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Posts: 317
Have you been intouch with:
1990 R100G/S Project
Stephen have already done what you are asking about, and he is in Canada. No point in re-inventing the wheel -
__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23 Oct 2010
Ekke's Avatar
HU CanWest Meeting Organiser
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Redwood Meadows, AB, Canada
Posts: 358
Thanks Albert

Thanks for the link. I've seen some of Stephen Botcher's work but haven't talked to him. That Franken Beemer looks like quite the bit of work. Very nice. But it seems to me that going with the Q-Tech kit and the Siebenrock kit would be less "reinvention" and hopefully just plug-and-play.

I'll have a look at the Silent Hektik and Omega Ignition to see what their advantages are. As Ali Baba has mentioned before it is the ignition timing that can be the most troublesome in dual plugging and Q-Tech seems to have a good solid history of making it work.

Ekke

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc lindberg View Post
Have you been intouch with:
1990 R100G/S Project
Stephen have already done what you are asking about, and he is in Canada. No point in re-inventing the wheel -
__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

www.ekke-audrey.ca
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23 Oct 2010
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Posts: 317
Hi Ekke,

Well thought through motiovation.

If the budget allows for it - "plug and play" is a smart way to do it.

- heads converted for dual plugging and un-leaded petrol
- Siebenrock 1000cc kit
- Q-tech ingnition system
- a more powerfull alternator
Guess that is an investment of about 2600-2800EU in material only?

Have a look at the rocker system when you are at it. Motoren Israel have some neat options.

I recommend installing lash-caps from VW tuning; "valvestem butt and rocker-arm tip protections". Cost is very low, even top racing quallity is affordable.
Dalhems
Welcome to GeneBerg.com
__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23 Oct 2010
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
The kit from Q-tech is 496€ (all inclusive), the Siebenrock upgrade kit is less then 900€ (incl all gaskets and new pushrod-tubes).
It would be a good idea to inspect/rebuild the heads, if you like I'm sure Q-tech can do it when they prepare them for dual-plugging. The heads can be used for un-leaded without modifications.

It's all plug & play
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
V strom tech in UK hamster Suzuki Tech 6 13 Nov 2010 03:34
Old tech , New tech travelHK Which Bike? 13 30 Oct 2007 18:49
XRV 750 Tech Spec HELP! bonzo Honda Tech 3 31 Jan 2007 00:36
bad experience Chile BMW, good experience this mechanic mareestu Repair Shops, South America 12 3 Dec 2004 22:35
KLR Tech Area Kurt Website Feedback 4 27 Oct 2001 11:10

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:38.