^ Fixed the typo. Thanks.


As for "offs", that was kind of out of the ambit of my topic. I personally am an AGATT guy, but there are many that prefer comfort to protection at times. I'm sure the issue has been well debated on this site---it certainly has on other moto forums I've been on. The key is whatever level of protection you like, hopefully my write-up gives you some ideas for how to stretch the use of your jacket.

All good info But motorcycling is quite a different activity to hiking, climbing, cross country skiing.

Manufacturers (like REI) assume users are active, doing physical exertion. Fabrics like Gore-Tex great when your working hard getting up a trail or cross country skiing across Sea ice. Other fabrics like Capilene and others are also amazing, along with the latest thin Merino Wool jerseys and such. Love it.

Many don't know Gore-Tex's "breathability" won't help in HEAT ... but is great in cold. Was specifically designed for exertion by users for Winter use. I tested very early Gore-Tex products in Antarctica in the 70's (USARP) we got a full tech rundown from THE MAN himself. It was not great for us because we got bird shit, oil and grease all over it and it no longer was waterproof!
Gore-Tex fabric must be clean to work! (otherwise was great!) I saved a set for myself for our days off cross country skiing. Worked great until you fell in a Seal breath hole in the Ice (which I actually did ).

Back to Motorcycles:
On a bike you mostly just sit there freezing in wind blast ... (unless doing technical off road work). Mountain climbers sweat like rapists, bike riders sit and freeze. What's the wind chill factor at 70 mph?

But as you suggest, layering correctly is important on a motorcycle too. But you left out a MAJOR important piece of the gear puzzle that's been in the mix since the early 70's: Electrically heated gear.

Early elec. products were of limited value (I know, I was there). Low output, inefficient. Even today you need a bike with a fairly robust charging system to get the most out of Elec. gear. But even my feeble DR650 with it's mere 200 Watt output does enough to save my life wearing my Gerbing elec. jacket liner.

But once again ... that layering thing comes up. Few riders know or understand how to layer when using an electric jacket liner. Ask Gerbing. (I did)

They say:
Jacket should not be too loose fitting. (snug) Jacket should be 2nd item ... worn on top of base layer. Anything else should go OVER elec. Jacket liner. This puts the elec. liner close to your skin and the over layers help seal in the heat.
IT WORKS!

I estimate my Gerbing is worth about 3 Merino wool sweaters or two down Parkas (thin ones) Less bulk, more heat!

But FAR more riders ride in HEAT than COLD. And heat is a bigger challenge than cold is, IMO. I've seen more than one set of ADV riders turn tail and run for home... ended their trip because they could not handle the heat.

Of course they wore gear for a true EU Winter in Cent. America. They were par boiled. Lots of tricks for hot weather riding and lots of good info on that too. But it's Winter ... so I guess we should stick with that ... for now. what's that? It's 90F in Panama now?

Totally agree on the activity. Sitting on a motorcycle is more like open cockpit aircraft than mountain climbing, there is little warming activity unless you stop to have a stretch.

Heated clothing however I find too unreliable to bet anything more serious than comfort on. I want food and insulation sufficient to survive a breakdown.

The biggest design flaw with motorcycle clothing is the short bomber jacket designs. Race fashion as usual, but the gap at the waist needs sealing. I wear a one piece flying suit under the armoured and waterproof layers.

Andy

I also had in mind open cockpit flying - not so much of it around nowadays, but a silk scarf would still work well.
I have thought about using my silk sleeping bag liner as a combined neck scarf and "body wrap" across my chest, especially on one particular occasion of heavy rain, thick mist and near zero viz in the Alps, in July!

The shortie jackets are a pain, but there does seem to be a decent selection of longer styled jackets in this "adventure" market of today.
Personally, I often wear a kidney belt for this very reason, it covers the potential gap very efficiently and it is just one more layer around that area which is very "comforting".
They are not expensive either.

The USA manufactured AeroStitch all-in-one riding suit is an interesting variant for the issue of sealing the gap.

__________________
Dave

3/4 riding jackets have been around in force since at least mid to late 1980's.
Very common here in USA and in UK.

Silk is wonderful ... underused and underrated by riders. I love my Silk glove liners and Silk sock liners under my Smart Wool socks. I've not found a Silk Sleeping bag liner but it would be great!

Scarves are good, very romantic, but I prefer a really good wind stopper Balaclava. One that is all encompassing and tucks into top of jacket collar. Very effective.

In the Antarctic we were taught to keep head and neck warm as so much heat loss happens there.

I love this one: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/silk-hik...d_8329035.html

I prefer a fleece buff, stuffed into the jacket collar and a larger goretex buff on top that goes over the jacket collar so that water won't run into the jacket. Stadler has a nice one, TouraTrinkets does one as well but I think it only fits on their own Companero jackets.

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Belgium to Nordkapp via Iran | Discover Overland | Destination World

I bought a moto-specific buff (Rev'it I think, but not certain) and I hated it. didn't keep my neck warm, leaked air, and was uncomfortable in general.

So on one cold day I resorted to using just a regular wool scarf, which I wrap around my neck a few times and then tuck into my jacket. I was surprised at how well it worked at both blocking wind and keeping me warm. Sometimes, old and simple trumps new and engineered.

Regarding the hyper variety, the thread linked below contains a salutary message.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...haustion-64722

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Dave