Jeez, how cold are you expecting it to get!

I've done a fair bit of cold camping, here in Scotland and in Norway in winter, down to about -20 celsius. A lot of people shy away from camping in cold weather, but actually its fine. It's difficult to advise you how much insulation you'll need without knowing what temperatures you'll face, or how personally resistant to cold you are (it varies considerably). However, it's better to have too much than too little, especially as you are travelling by car. I'd offer the following advice:

You are right about multiple mats. You can lose a lot of heat through contact with the ground. One thermarest and one foam mat should be enough though. I put clothes and stuff under my mat if I'm expecting it to be really cold. I personally think it's better to do this to stay warm than wear many layers inside your bag, that is just uncomfy.

Rather than do the hood of your bag up around your head, close it round your neck (not too tight!) and wear a woolly hat. This stops the condensation from your breath making your bag damp. Important if you are either sleeping in a down bag or away for multiple days.

I just wear thermal undies and thick socks inside the bag. I find this to be both comfy and warm.

Keep a waterbottle INSIDE your sleeping bag for your morning brew. This will stop it freezing overnight. A freind of mine recently ignored me when I said this, then whinged in the morning that he had no water!

If, like me, you sometimes have to pee during the night, keep a pee bottle in there too. It should be a different type to your water bottle (in case you get thirsty in the night!). I use a nalgene bottle with duct tape wrapped round it so I can identify it by touch. This will stop the long, cold walk to the toilet block at 3 am!

Your tent choice relies more on the wind and rain you expect, than the temperatures. However, a lot of modern tents, especially from US manufacturers, use a lot of mesh in their inners. This offers little insulative benefit and you'd be better off with a tent with a nylon inner.

Cylinders of camping gas become very innefficient in very cold temperatures and, once half full, barely work. You'd be much better off with a petrol stove. (Cheaper to run, and easier to get fuel for, too). The Coleman Sportster 535 is a good cheap stove used by a lot of overlanders.

Regarding waterproofs. If it is well below freezing you don't need waterproofs. Indeed, you'd be better off with nice breathable windproofs. My winter ski jacket is a poly cotton blend that is much 'drier' than a gore-tex in similar circumstances.

Matt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Bloody h*** Matt - If I didn't know better I'd say you were Norwegian! ;-)

Anyway - this is next month. That's September. Say October for good measure. You seem to have all the gear you need. Up north you may encounter some snow, but the temp isn't going to be too bad in the coastal area. Inland it may creep further down to well below zero especially at night, but you'll probably not experience anything like -20 C. That's reserved for the coldest depths of January/February, usually.

BTW: The best camping tent by far in cold weather: The Lavvo, into which you can make a fire if you need to. Here's my favourite winter lavvo, the Helsport Varanger ("best in test"). Oh, and while in the north, buy yourself a couple of reindeer skins to use as carpets in your tent. You'll never worry about the cold ground ever again.

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HansP
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Thanks! I'll take that as a compliment!

A friend of mine has one of those tipi things, absolutely awesome! One ill-advised canoeing trip in November last year was made bearable by cramming nine of us in it with the fire and cracking open the malt!

Ooh, I just remembered, for obvious reasons, you want a PLASTIC pee bottle, rather than a metal one!

Matt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Buy 4 Leg Camp Bed. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .

They are £7-99 at the RANGE shop.
I roll it up with my dome tent.
You will actuall enjoy your sleep!!!!!!!!! And you can camp on any ground, even with rocks!
Hint: place your boot under your bed where yuor head goes so the material does not sag. Use a jacket as a pillow! Job done.
Cheers
orrin

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Matt has summed a lot of it up well enough. So i have little to add. However I think you are not going to get the very cold temperatures that yo are worried about.. according to the world met service in September the temperatures in Murmansk range from 4.3 to 9.5 degs (Celcius), but always better safe then sorry....so..

One of the best bits of advice I was ever given was keep some Gorp (GORP - Food - Good Old Raisins and Peanuts : aka muesli with chocolate in it) in the tent with you at night if you wake up cold eat a handful and you will be amazed how much you can warm up and then sleep afterwards (the scientific reason is called HIF - heat increment of feeding)...yes i am a geek bugger off.

Personally I like the mesh inner tents as they keep you breath condensation away from you and your stuff but it really does have to be a good design. The Tipi styles are what we (British Antarctic survey Camping in the Antarctic - British Antarctic Survey) use "on the Ice" but they are VERY VERY HEAVY and i find quite difficult to set up solo, if you do go this way and make fire in side please please be aware of the carbon monoxide poising risk. I have seen people effected by this several times to many (although luckily none fatal). For that reason i never use any combustion stove inside. (there is also the fire thing..)

Good luck mate. and have fun..

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Hi Xander,

This is a really good point. In Norway a few years ago in a one man tent I had a really bad time keeping my down bag dry because the condensation would freeze on the inside of the inner then drop onto (or fall off when I brushed against it) my sleeping bag, where it would melt. Luckily I had enough decent days that I could sun my bag for a few hours and dry it out a bit. It never occured to me a mesh tent would prevent this!

The only reservation I have is that, on the same trip, there was a bit of a hoolie and lots of spindrift blew in the outer door. It didn't get into my inner tent, because it was full nylon, but the door did have a an optional outer of no-see-um mozzie netting. The tiny flakes of spindrift went straight through the netting, getting trapped between the two doors. There was a couple of pounds by morning! I'd be scared that this would happen in a mesh tent and I'd get covered in spindrift! Have you ever experienced anything like this or was it a freakish event? I guess if you could stop the spindrift by-passing the outer, it wouldn't get in through the inner, which is where I guess that 'good design' comes in! Would appreciate your thoughts on this (or anyone elses with similar experience!).

Matt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Hey Mat, Sorry i have never experienced this. My tents have never had the no-see-em on the outer (inside yes). So i cant really advise.. Any condensation can still freeze in a mesh inner tent but it will be on the out side of the mesh so it will bounce off and not hit you (only things in the vestibules). One point that this did bring up.. if you are in snow conditions and you can.. dig the tent in a few cm or so (the deeper the better) then pack the snow around the edges of the tent's outter. It has 2 effects 1) stops anything from slipping under (cus even snow tents can move in the wind), it kinda acts as 360deg guy lines. 2) Snow is an amazing insulator so keeps you warmer. Snow caves (dig outs) can get too warm (trust me).

Indu, Yeah i know you are not talking Arctic tipis (but that is my only experience of them).. and yes it is possible to set them up solo (I just find it hard.) but I still find them too heavy .. yes it is compromise between weight and sq footage.. but my personal taste is that I will take small and light.. my tent weighs in at 0.95kg (with pegs, lines and fly and bag). My Main point is that even though they are made for it.. please be sure that you do have good circulation going if burning anything in the tent.. CO is too easy to die from.

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Yes, you are right. I think using a lavvo is like having a van: You sort of get addicted to the convenience of all that space. The lavvo in itself is not so large when packed up and fits neatly on the bike. But it's not small, and if size and/or weight is your prime concern there are other options. In winter, I have a high priority on the ability to make a fire to dry clothes and keep warm inside the tent. I do not find other suitable options than a lavvo. And I can bring in the bike if I need to ;-)

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Look at the photo, one of the guys is wearing a thermal suit bit like a ski suit. (red/black with some reflective on). Not sure what they are called but you can pick them up in larger supermarkets in Norway, they are cheap and great in cold dry conditions if it gets really cold you can sleep in them too.

If your heating packs up you can drive in them. They are a great bit of kit to have even if you only use them when in camp.

have a good trip

We're not talking Antarctic Expedition tipis here, I think. The Helsport Varanger is 11.3 kg in total, incl tent, inner tent, "floor", pole, plugs etc. I don't use the inner tent, shaving off 2.8 kgs. That's 8.5 kg for 17 square meters of tent space. And you can even have the Helsport Lavvulight, weighing in at 2.4 kgs - in total! - but then you have only 6.5 sqm to your disposal.

With some practice it isn't too difficult to put up these modern lavvos by yourself either.

The beauty of lavvos, or tipis if you will, is the continuous air current from the bottom of the lavvo and all the way up through the top. By adjusting the top venting hat and the vents at the bottom you can regulate that current to pull out the smoke and CO. Obviously you want to pay attention, but it has worked for e.g the American Indians and the Sami for ages.



From the Primus Winter Rally in Norway.

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Tatonka Grönland 2 2 Personen Tunnel-ZeltHappy Card Artikel, XSPO - Cross Sports

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Greetings
Randa / Denmark

You mention you are driving?
Why not sleep in the car?

Be aware that with a camp bed, you have to have lots of isolation under you, as the air under you, can be much colder than the ground and your sleeping bag is compressed where you lie on it.

Take a breathable bivy bag or fix a piece of nylon cloth over your downbag so the condensation from your breath, will collect on that and not on the sleeping bag.

By the way: between +10 and -5 centigrade, is the most annoying as you will get water condensation on the inner tent and you'll get wet every time you touch it.
If its cold enough, the condensation will be rime frost which can be so dry, that you can brush it off your bag or clothes.

A multiburner for diesel or gasolin is very effective in cold climates. A normal gas will not burn at all under 0 centigrade and even "wintergas" doesn't evaporate under -6 / -8 centigrade, if you have to use gas, heat the cannister with a candle and later over the gas fire when its burning (carefully !)

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May you enjoy peace and good health !

I've 'camped' in a car and a tent on the same night ... a tent is warmer!!!!!! All that metal and glass .. never again. Well not unless it has been properly set up .. then a tent is cheaper.

One aspect of cold weather tents - the outer wall goes all the way to the ground .. warm weather tents outer walls stop above the ground to get rid of heat by more ventilation. If it is cold and you r tent walls dont go all the way down .. try to make something to block most of the gap.

The pee bottle should be inside the tent .. and inside the bag when you finish - it is warm - so keep trhe heat.

One firm rule - keep a light (headlight, torch or whatever) in some consistant location ... that way you'll always know where to find it .. It is the most important thing you hve on any dark night.

Nostrovia! (sp?)

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I wouldn't buy and TRY to carry such a big and heavy tent...

I searched the tents and also started a thread about best tents for motorbiking in the Hubb.
I bought something light, effective which has better ventilation. May be you need a better tent for winter condition. Yeah but not something like this 12 kgs huge one... Even 5 kgs is much IMHO.
I have a very good Salewa Mountain 25 tent which is 4.25 kgs. It is very good for winter. I don't use it for motorbiking. The tent I bought is 3.3 kgs something. Sure, it is not for real winter...

Ah yes may be because of I am ver slim and don't want to have more wight on the bike...

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