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**Matt Cartney** · #1 24 Jan 2012

Jedimaster

I wouldn't let this stop you buying a Hilleberg. I agree the tent should have come with a tube of sealant but selling tents with seams which you seal yourself is pretty common (although getting less so). Hilleberg are pretty much the best tents on the market.

Having said that, they are expensive and I'd go with something quality, but cheaper, if your use is exclusively motorcycle touring.

**JediMaster** · #2 24 Jan 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney

Jedimaster

I wouldn't let this stop you buying a Hilleberg. I agree the tent should have come with a tube of sealant but selling tents with seams which you seal yourself is pretty common (although getting less so). Hilleberg are pretty much the best tents on the market.

Having said that, they are expensive and I'd go with something quality, but cheaper, if your use is exclusively motorcycle touring.

I haven't encountered 'seal-it-yourself' before. It seems something of a cop-out for a tent costing so much money.

I have a few friends with Hilleberg tents and I've met plenty of other travelers with them. They all swear by them.
However, this incident just made me wonder if this is going to lead to the increasingly common product reviews that say 'the old ones were good but the new ones...'.

In Australia back in '08 I bought a used Snowgum tent (which was very good). When I went to buy a groundsheet for it the guy asked about my tent and then what colour it was. When I told him his reply was "Ah... you got the last of the good ones made in Vietnam. They're made in China now".

I'm also looking to replace my stove but many reviews (certainly Optimus and MSR) tell the same story..."The old ones (brass pumps) were good but the new ones with plastic pumps are unreliable".
It seems the drive for increased profit leads many manufacturers to change materials/design/manufacturers.

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic regarding the Hilleberg fault mentioned, but its a LOT of money to invest in a tent so I want to be sure I'm making the right decision.

I took a look at your blog by the way and have added 'Skis Against the Atom' to my reading list. Nice one. I rode through Iran, Pakistan (where I spent 2 months) in 2006. Shame you missed it...next time eh...?

Adam

**markharf** · #3 24 Jan 2012

It's possible also that this is just the nature of product reviews of any sort: "the old ones were great, but the new ones suck," including politicians, child-rearing practices, educational institutions, automobiles, wool blankets, and girlfriends.

In point of fact, the old brass pumps weren't very reliable either, and tents for many years came with tubes of seam sealer. Before the seam sealer, tents didn't tend to leak so much (or need groundsheets), but they did weigh twice as much, and even the expensive ones were far more prone to UV damage than, at least, the current Hillebergs.

Just saying. Of course, all the usual caveats apply, including the fact that it's hardly 6 AM at the moment, and I was working until past midnight last night. This makes me highly prone to misstatements and exaggerations.

Mark

**Toyark** · #4 24 Jan 2012

I had a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 for years and years (lost count)
Never leaked, never a problem despite some horrendous weather (used in snow/hail/high winds/heat/floods where a 'river' ran under the tent for 2 days)

I looked at the Staika but did not buy because of the poor porch design.

I upgraded to a Nammatj 2 GT as I wanted the extra porch room which makes a huge difference to my comforts and just changed all the pegs.
It's exactly the same as the Nammatj 2 (living quarter wise) but with the extension of the porch and one extra pole-
Still a one entry tent.

Jedi Master ==> I highly recommend my tent - I have no connection to Hilleberg.
I did speak to them with a view to buy just the outer and an extra pole but the price they quoted me was over £200 MORE than a complete new tent! go figure.

Still, I love my Nammatj 2 GT and am grateful to Hilleberg for having designed and made it.

Still top bananas if expensive bananas.

I use a tarp to keep UV at bay and it also gives me a nice dry place to put up/take down the tent away from weather so it is normally the first thing I put up.

**JediMaster** · #5 24 Jan 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrand

I had a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 for years and years (lost count)
Never leaked, never a problem despite some horrendous weather (used in snow/hail/high winds/heat/floods where a 'river' ran under the tent for 2 days)

I looked at the Staika but did not buy because of the poor porch design.

I upgraded to a Nammatj 2 GT as I wanted the extra porch room which makes a huge difference to my comforts and just changed all the pegs.
It's exactly the same as the Nammatj 2 (living quarter wise) but with the extension of the porch and one extra pole-
Still a one entry tent.

Jedi Master ==> I highly recommend my tent - I have no connection to Hilleberg.
I did speak to them with a view to buy just the outer and an extra pole but the price they quoted me was over £200 MORE than a complete new tent! go figure.

Still, I love my Nammatj 2 GT and am grateful to Hilleberg for having designed and made it.

Still top bananas if expensive bananas.

Good to hear from a 'long term' user/fan. I have some Aussie friends with a Staika and rave about it. After several months in Africa the floor became porous and so they contacted Hilleberg. They were offered a replacement inner FOC. The tent had had a LOT of use by that point (not just in Africa) and so Billy asked if they (Hilleberg) would be prepared to offer a deal on a new tent. Yes they said...40% discount!

That was a few years ago now. I wonder if their customer service is still that good?

**JediMaster** · #6 24 Jan 2012

Bertrand - your photos didn't open the first time I saw your post so I've only just seen them.

Does your tarp set-up keep you cooler inside in direct sunlight? Is it quieter in the rain?

How small does it pack up? Weight?

Sorry about all the questions...just curious!

Your big tank Dakar brings back some memories too!

**Toyark** · #7 24 Jan 2012

Does it it keep the tent:
Cooler = yes
Quieter in the rain = much
weight = 1.75 Kgs without pegs or poles
size = without compression aka as it arrived from shop 55cm X 20 X 8cm ish- could fold it a different way/squish it down to fit cases etc.
Great tanks :0) blessed be our memories for they are the flowers of our Life's garden.

**JediMaster** · #8 24 Jan 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by markharf

It's possible also that this is just the nature of product reviews of any sort: "the old ones were great, but the new ones suck," including politicians, child-rearing practices, educational institutions, automobiles, wool blankets, and girlfriends.

In point of fact, the old brass pumps weren't very reliable either, and tents for many years came with tubes of seam sealer. Before the seam sealer, tents didn't tend to leak so much (or need groundsheets), but they did weigh twice as much, and even the expensive ones were far more prone to UV damage than, at least, the current Hillebergs.

Just saying. Of course, all the usual caveats apply, including the fact that it's hardly 6 AM at the moment, and I was working until past midnight last night. This makes me highly prone to misstatements and exaggerations.

Mark

Morning Mark! I was waiting for your contribution.

You want to pack that working lark in and get back on your bike!!!

UV is a very good point that's rarely mentioned. I loriginaly left home with a British made 'Lightwave' tent after reading many good reviews.Well what a POS that turned out to be. It certainly couldn't cope with the sun of New Zealand and Oz and eventually went in the bin after just 30 nights (with broken zips, a broken zips, broken poles and a fly sheet that had stretched so much in the sun that I couldn't keep it taught enough to keep it off the inner.

**Matt Cartney** · #9 25 Jan 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediMaster

I haven't encountered 'seal-it-yourself' before. It seems something of a cop-out for a tent costing so much money.

I have a few friends with Hilleberg tents and I've met plenty of other travelers with them. They all swear by them.
However, this incident just made me wonder if this is going to lead to the increasingly common product reviews that say 'the old ones were good but the new ones...'.

In Australia back in '08 I bought a used Snowgum tent (which was very good). When I went to buy a groundsheet for it the guy asked about my tent and then what colour it was. When I told him his reply was "Ah... you got the last of the good ones made in Vietnam. They're made in China now".

I'm also looking to replace my stove but many reviews (certainly Optimus and MSR) tell the same story..."The old ones (brass pumps) were good but the new ones with plastic pumps are unreliable".
It seems the drive for increased profit leads many manufacturers to change materials/design/manufacturers.

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic regarding the Hilleberg fault mentioned, but its a LOT of money to invest in a tent so I want to be sure I'm making the right decision.

I took a look at your blog by the way and have added 'Skis Against the Atom' to my reading list. Nice one. I rode through Iran, Pakistan (where I spent 2 months) in 2006. Shame you missed it...next time eh...?

Adam

Hi Adam,

You could be right, my knowledge of Hilleberg is not particularly current. You used to get a few tents which came with a tube of sealant for DIY seaing. There were a couple of reasons for this - one (and probably most importantly!) it was time consuming and costly to seal the tent in the factory as the sealant takes a while to dry and the tent can't be folded until it is. Secondly, the idea was that if you sealed the tent in the factory then went out and pitched it in high winds a few times then the inevitable stretching of seams would tear minute holes in the sealant making it no longer waterproof. The advice we used to give people (I worked in an outdoor shop) was to pitch your tent a few times, preferably in windy weather then seal the seams.
Admittedly, these days taping the seams is far more common than seam sealant. Although the post above says that the guy from Hilleberg stated they couldn't satisfactorily tape the seams in the corners. Coming from Hilleberg, this is probably true. Having said that, I do think they should have supplied a tube of sealant and made it clear on purchase that some seams would need sealed.

Just as an aside, while I rate Hilleberg about the best in the market, I wouldn't buy one because I'm too stingy! My personal favourite tent manufacturer is far and away the New Zealand brand Macpac. They are a great match of good price and superb quality. I've had a Macpac Microlight (1 man) for 14 years, used regularly in everything from torrential downpours in Australia to -20 snowstorms in Norway and it has never let me down. When it eventually dies I'll just buy another one and I'm trying to think of an excuse to sell my 2 man Wild Country to buy a Macpac Minaret!

Cheers,

Matt

PS- Hope you like Skis Against the Atom - it is what made me go to Norway!

PPS- Oh, if you are looking for a petrol stove check out the Coleman multifuels. The Sportster is a bit heavy but I have the smaller, lighter one which retails around £85 (can't remember the actual name of it). They are heavier and more basic than the MSR but IMHO more durable and easier to live with. Light enough for motorcycle touring. Runs a treat on unleaded (even the crap you get in Iran!)

**JediMaster** · #10 25 Jan 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney

Hi Adam,

You could be right, my knowledge of Hilleberg is not particularly current. You used to get a few tents which came with a tube of sealant for DIY seaing. There were a couple of reasons for this - one (and probably most importantly!) it was time consuming and costly to seal the tent in the factory as the sealant takes a while to dry and the tent can't be folded until it is. Secondly, the idea was that if you sealed the tent in the factory then went out and pitched it in high winds a few times then the inevitable stretching of seams would tear minute holes in the sealant making it no longer waterproof. The advice we used to give people (I worked in an outdoor shop) was to pitch your tent a few times, preferably in windy weather then seal the seams.
Admittedly, these days taping the seams is far more common than seam sealant. Although the post above says that the guy from Hilleberg stated they couldn't satisfactorily tape the seams in the corners. Coming from Hilleberg, this is probably true. Having said that, I do think they should have supplied a tube of sealant and made it clear on purchase that some seams would need sealed.

Just as an aside, while I rate Hilleberg about the best in the market, I wouldn't buy one because I'm too stingy! My personal favourite tent manufacturer is far and away the New Zealand brand Macpac. They are a great match of good price and superb quality. I've had a Macpac Microlight (1 man) for 14 years, used regularly in everything from torrential downpours in Australia to -20 snowstorms in Norway and it has never let me down. When it eventually dies I'll just buy another one and I'm trying to think of an excuse to sell my 2 man Wild Country to buy a Macpac Minaret!

Cheers,

Matt

PS- Hope you like Skis Against the Atom - it is what made me go to Norway!

PPS- Oh, if you are looking for a petrol stove check out the Coleman multifuels. The Sportster is a bit heavy but I have the smaller, lighter one which retails around £85 (can't remember the actual name of it). They are heavier and more basic than the MSR but IMHO more durable and easier to live with. Light enough for motorcycle touring. Runs a treat on unleaded (even the crap you get in Iran!)

Hi Matt,

Thanks for reminding me about Macpac, I'd forgoton to look at them. I have a Macpac Gisslade rucksack (buried in storage somewhere) and its bompproof!

Coleman stoves are what I'm using now and have used for several years. I've had a 533, Multifuel and now a 442.
Unfortunately they all suffer from the same problem - clogging(I only use gasoline). Eventually the 'generator' (brass tube) needs to be replaced but that's the part that gives the stove its characteristics. I've got from stoves that boil water in seconds but burn all your food to simmering beautifully but taking longer to boil. Unfortunately you don't know what you're getting until you've fitted it.

The Multifuel simmered best but burst into flames in Ecuador. Once extinguished I replaced the generator with the spare I was carrying but once again it burst into flames. Extinguished for a second time I replaced the pump kit only for it to burst into flames again. This time I let the f#@*r burn!!! I rode into Quito and found my current 442. 5 months later and it was in desperate need of a new generator (-12C in the Andes and no working stove is no fun!) I was gifted a new generator by some fellow English riders heading home but now have a roaring flame that burns all my food! Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!!

I really like the the all-in-one design but a cleanable jet would be very useful to me.

I'll take a look at Macpac now...

Cheers

Adam

**twowheels03** · #11 18 Mar 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediMaster

Hi Matt,

Thanks for reminding me about Macpac, I'd forgoton to look at them. I have a Macpac Gisslade rucksack (buried in storage somewhere) and its bompproof!

Coleman stoves are what I'm using now and have used for several years. I've had a 533, Multifuel and now a 442.
Unfortunately they all suffer from the same problem - clogging(I only use gasoline). Eventually the 'generator' (brass tube) needs to be replaced but that's the part that gives the stove its characteristics. I've got from stoves that boil water in seconds but burn all your food to simmering beautifully but taking longer to boil. Unfortunately you don't know what you're getting until you've fitted it.

The Multifuel simmered best but burst into flames in Ecuador. Once extinguished I replaced the generator with the spare I was carrying but once again it burst into flames. Extinguished for a second time I replaced the pump kit only for it to burst into flames again. This time I let the f#@*r burn!!! I rode into Quito and found my current 442. 5 months later and it was in desperate need of a new generator (-12C in the Andes and no working stove is no fun!) I was gifted a new generator by some fellow English riders heading home but now have a roaring flame that burns all my food! Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!!

I really like the the all-in-one design but a cleanable jet would be very useful to me.

I'll take a look at Macpac now...

Cheers

Adam

Mate, our Optimus Nova as fitted to out Trangia set up has all the qualities you mention. It simmers well - has a changeable jet and is rebuild able.

Let you know about the Hilleberg after a few months in NZ !!

Kinger

**grizzly7** · #12 25 Mar 2012

My Nallo 3 is fab and doesn't leak, although could have more ventilation.

I quite like Shangri-La one pole designs, and I don't think they tape any seals. In fact you don't even have to buy an inner!

Shelters 3+

I wonder what response the OP expected without providing an address? :confused1:

**Brian and Tanja** · #13 5 Jun 2012

It's been a while since I first posted about my tent leak, so time for a quick update. After receiving an unsatisfactory response from the general email contact (copied into previous posts) I found the email address for Rolf Hilleberg on the Hilleberg website. It was refreshing to find that email address on their website. Even more so when he emailed me back in a short period of time to say that the untaped corners are normal, but leaking seams are not!. He claimed that Hilleberg stitching is usually so tight they get no leaks from the seams.

Unfortunately he then suggested he would come back to me with some assistance. However, after a week of not hearing from him I emailed to ask what was going on. His response was basically that as we were in Iran and going on to Pakistan they couldn't help, so he suggested "I get out my inner MacGyver" and fix the leak myself. A somewhat patronising and unhelpful contribution, or so I thought.

Even more unfortunately when we got to Australia we began using our Hilleberg XP10 tarp (€100+ !!) in some heavy rain. Previously we had not bothered to use it much. Surprise, surprise water began leaking quite copiously from the untaped seam. Pictures below. I am just about to email Mr Hilleberg with our updated woes, and will post details of his reply if/when I receive it.

I hope this thread proves useful to anyone deciding whether to pay the 'Hilleberg premium' on their new camping equipment.