Waxed cotton - How durable?

[Smokin]

I bought a nice waxed cotton jacket, and it is a traditional biker jacket, but it doesn't seem to be that resilient. In the event of a crash, how does it hold up? Will it and my skin be torn to shreds or is it actually a durable material?

Thanks.

[Stormboy]

Waxed cotton will last you for years.
I had a "Stagg" oilskin throughout the 70's and 80's, that survived a couple of offs.
If it's a new reproduction, you should have the option of adding armour and I would advise that you do so.

Where did you get yours?
How much?
What Brand?
Link?
Pics?

Chris.

[Flyingdoctor]

This Sunstuff gear sounds like a bargain compared to belstaff prices.

Hitchcocks Motorcycles -- Royal Enfield and Amal Parts and Kits

(Click on the accessories catalogue/ clothing)

[Threewheelbonnie]

Belstaff is fashion ware, I wouldn't entertain their high prices and low spec. After that you can pay what you like from £40 for an Egyptian knock off through to the stuff Hitchcocks sell. I'm using a £99 one off E-bay and am very happy.

Crash resistance wise, it isn't leather. It'll rip up just like Horrible Gherkins ****est Goretex'd nylon, so one decent slide and you'll be shopping. The only thing that in my experience survives multiple full-on offs is leather. Don't do any serious sliding and WC will last as long as leather.

Andy

[Dazzerrtw]

Hi
I used to use a old Wax jacket

I was riding a old AJS when I came off the bike riding down Tim lane in Haworth.

I was doing about 30mph and the arm and shoulder worn through taking a bit of my skin with it.

They look the part when riding old Bike's

I would not use one again...They leak in heavy rain and I leke to use a jacket that will help keep be dry and warm and protect my Old Skin and Bone,s

Stay Safe

Dazzer

[Smokin]

Hey, thanks for the replies.

The one I got was a Belstaff Trialmaster. Knowing it had a history with bikes, I thought it would be pretty durable but obviously it's more of a fashion brand. I probably would get something a bit tougher for any serious journeys.

[Threewheelbonnie]

Originally Posted by Dazzerrtw

Hi
I used to use a old Wax jacket

I was riding a old AJS when I came off the bike riding down Tim lane in Haworth.

I was doing about 30mph and the arm and shoulder worn through taking a bit of my skin with it.

They look the part when riding old Bike's

I would not use one again...They leak in heavy rain and I leke to use a jacket that will help keep be dry and warm and protect my Old Skin and Bone,s

Stay Safe

Dazzer

I think by old you maybe mean worn out? I spent all last winter including the Elefant rally wearing a Drizabone coat. Not one single drip or drop got through (way better collar and cuff designs) and unlike Gore**** there is no freezer bag effect from trapped sweat. All that's required in an annual clean and proofing, which is more hassle that just popping down to the Horrible Gherkin shop for a "free" coffee and £300 worth of jacket, but there you go. For solo riders, armour would be my only concern, but you can buy that loose.

Andy

[backofbeyond]

Maybe it's selective memory but I do remember the couple of Belstaff waxed cotton jackets I had at the dawn of my biking career being pretty good for the purpose of keeping water out. The waxed cotton had a long life as well - certainly compared to the nylon jackets available at the time where the proofing layer would stat to peel off after a while.

Crashing in them wasn't something I did much of - a few low speed get offs but again I remember the material holding up well (I could still use the jacket afterwards). Maybe the wax acts as a lubricant as you slide along the ground!

What they didn't have was the built in armour that's in just about every jacket these days, so the impact of hitting the ground still hurt. It was the wax bit that put me off eventually - everything that came in contact with them ended up covered in wax.

[Starbeck]

Originally Posted by Smokin

I bought a nice waxed cotton jacket, and it is a traditional biker jacket, but it doesn't seem to be that resilient. In the event of a crash, how does it hold up? Will it and my skin be torn to shreds or is it actually a durable material?

Thanks.

You wear what you like.
Just stop crashing, you'll be fine.

[masukomi]

Originally Posted by Smokin

I bought a nice waxed cotton jacket, and it is a traditional biker jacket, but it doesn't seem to be that resilient. In the event of a crash, how does it hold up? Will it and my skin be torn to shreds or is it actually a durable material?

Thanks.

When contemplating how well a garment will keep your skin intact the most important factor to consider is the tear resistance. I don't have the numbers for the tear resistance of "waxed cotton" but, denim jeans are cotton and while i'd expect a cotton motorcycle jacket to have a higher tear resistance than jeans it's not going to be significantly higher because it's still the same material and one that's really not designed for that application. Additionally, with the heat that is imparted from even a quick slide on the road I'd expect the wax to melt instantaneously and thus provide no real additional help, so you're essentially talking about slightly thicker cotton. Related anecdote: I watched my girlfriend lowside on asphalt at about 25 mph. She hit and immediately started rolling I didn't see her sliding at all. Her 500 dennier cordura has non-trivial melting on the side of the arm near the bicep. Do NOT underestimate how quickly friction is converted into heat energy.

From the section on garment materials in a post I did a while ago ( So you want to ride a motorcycle… and not die | weblog.masukomi.org )

Here it’s pretty simple. Your three best choices are Cordura/Dynatech, Kevlar, and SuperFabric. Cordura (like all cloth) comes in various Deniers which has a variety of related definitions which essentially mean how dense the fabric is. The higher the number the better. I’ve seen garments with denier’s of 2000. Denim Jeans and 70 denier nylon require 4.5 pounds of force to tear. That’s it. That’s nothing. 620 denier takes 35 pounds which still doesn’t sound like a lot to me when you crash at highway speed. 1000 denier is 110 pounds which is getting better and is about the same as really good, new leather, but it’s still not much when you compare it to good kevlar which requires over 1,200 pounds to tear and SuperFabric which claims to have 14 times the abrasion resistance of kevlar (not sure about the tear resistance).

The only jacket manufacturer I've noticed that's currently incorporating SuperFabric is RevIt (Cayenne Pro and Defender Jackets), although some Glove manufactures are starting to use it too.

[Caminando]

An excellent and thoughtful post, thanks.

The evidence shows that waxed cotton is no good at all for bike riding.

It was designed in the 19th century for fishermen in the North Sea, and to use it in the 21st century when riding is just plain . Even those who like the "old look" admit that it's rubbish.

[Starbeck]

Nice photo of Mr McQeen, I have a similar one and several others given to me by Roy Peplow, a member of the Triumph "A" team in that years event.

I was in a rather trendy bar in Harrogate last night. A significant percentage of the assembled trendy types were wearing Belstaff jackets. There were no motorcycles parked outside.

Today I was in Manchester to visit the Dainese shop, bought only a t-shirt there but not far away I was surprised to find Belstaff's flagship store. While the wife spent the housekeeping money, I had a good look 'round at all the stuff including the Icon jacket, a replica of Steve McQueens, and I can honestly say that, although expensive, it is all top quality stuff and very well made. No pockets for body armour though so probably best kept for pottering around on an old trials Cub or leaning against the trendiest of bars.

[Dodger]

Jackets with armour for those who are interested .

Classic Tourist Trophy Jacket - British Motorcycle Gear


Falstaff Motorcycle Jacket :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear

[palace15]

If you like the style of the waxed cotton, you can always have one in leather, I have!

[Caminando]

Originally Posted by Dodger

Jackets with armour for those who are interested .

Classic Tourist Trophy Jacket - British Motorcycle Gear


Falstaff Motorcycle Jacket :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear

Thanks for the links D! The TrialMaster looks great, tho' the mention of "antique cotton" puts me off. The inclusion of some armour is a step forward too. I was never one for obsessing about safety gear, and this would be fine for me, apart from the material and I have to say, the price.

On back protection; when I read that most biking back injuries are caused by a torsional movement and not by impact, I used a bit of camping mat rather than those bulky, hot standard protectors.