It all depends. Some days I'm happy to hide behind my Shoei Hornet DS with dark tinted visor. Other days I want the freedom of my Airoh TR1 jet helmet minus the chin guard. Work colleagues say that the Hornet is intimidating and references to Halo and cyborgs are often made.

Not so with the TR1. The shoei has better upholstery but I roasted in the summer heat last year and so this year I'm toying with wearing the TR1 for general comfort in the heat and friendly factor. Of the three times I've fallen off bikes and the two occasions a car hit me my head never even touched the ground or the vehicle. Personal choice at the end of the day.

I think risk and perception of risk and what you are comfortable with changes from day to day. Some days I wear a hi-viz jacket others I'm happy to be all in black.

I'd personally use a full face helmet as I know I'd not be able to curbe my crazy urges and i'd flip the Ural sooner rather than later. It can corner on two wheels one way and give a super overdose of adrenaline the other way. So much fun potential that I'll stay away--I'd definitely kill myself. Maybe you're more restrained though. Linzi.

Seriously, all things being equal I could choose a flip-up lid but I just wouldn't choose an open face one for a day to day helmet or adventure lid. I lost count of how many time we fell off in Africa on our trip and even though I know chicks-dig-scars, my face is important to me and easily damaged.

You want to take in the atmosphere? Stop and take your lid off every now and again. As people keep saying on HUBB, its not like travellers should feel they're in a hurry.

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

We are typical humans when it comes to risk:

"Of the three times I've fallen off bikes and the two occasions a car hit me my head never even touched the ground or the vehicle" - The risk is no less real because it hasn't happened to you today, or yesterday etc

"I think risk and perception of risk and what you are comfortable with changes from day to day" - lazy risk management - they're basically the same for humans. A better question to ask yourself is not "how safe do I feel today" (passive/fuzzy) rather "how do I feel about living with the consequences" (mitigation)

Try this for enlightenment.
"Fooled by Randomness" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

Sometimes I'm a bit naughty but when I started riding helmets were things you used to keep your hair down. So as long as the road is quiet and I'm only doing 30-40mph I sometimes take it off.

My favourite helmet is the BMW System V flipfront. As I come into towns and villages in strange lands I like to flip the front up so I enter as a human being not as some Darth Vader lookalike.

The System V converts into a Jet helmet (open face), so in hot weather I take the front section off and install the Jet side pieces. The conversion also involves a different visor that comes further down.

Tim

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Open face.

Easier to chat to people,
You can smoke and eat without faffing,
You can sleep in it if the desert is cold,
No fogging,
They look good, ()
You can smell and touch and feel everything, (which I suppose does include the road if you come off - a small drawback.)

Birdy

There seems to be a new helmet out from Givi the X.06



Which offers something slightly different from the "standard" flip front whilst apparently being homologated (at least in France) as a full face. I've not seen one in the flesh, but it does look like it could offer a bit of both worlds (but maybe the worst?).

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Again its all down to choice like I said earlier I wear a Schuberth j1 open face when travelling however I have been riding for about 35 years using bike in most of that time as my daily transport. From 1977 to about 1985 I wore an Everoak open face helmet and goggles this was the time I was young and daft and on fast (for the day bikes) Laverdas Ducatis and Guzzis being my main bikes and a few BMWs I used to race around like a madman back then had a few spills and crashes (3 actual crashes and two slide offs in winter) (I have had only one very minor crash since then on road but and a few minor falls on the dirt) My only injuries in all that time by bike accidents were punctured abdomen - Fairing of ducati shattered and scewered me going under the bottom edge of the leather jacket, and the other injury was shaved off kneecap (wearing levis hit the tarmack at about 90mph oops ! (That was the easy bit cos the next bit was a cornish Hedge (dry stone wall for those that dont know) really did hurt ). My face never hit the tarmac(or the wall). Even in a very high speed off on the motorway where I slid a huge distance wearing a fast melting belstaff wax. However Three of my mates back then -Now Deceased were killed hitting objects Lorry/ wall and lampost respectively all were wearing full face helmets two died of head injuries the third a broken neck.
So where do we draw the statistics from. I think you have to weigh up things for yourself and see what the risks are - my jobs were - back then far more risky than riding a bike so even though I always wore a leather jacket and gloves the open face hat was for me a nicer way to ride. I still use a open face to this day usually my shuberth but often my Davida. I would not consider a full face they are for me hot in summer, they steam up in the wet, i find them generally uncomfortable (as I have jaw and cheek injuries - which hate pressure being applied -also a load of smashed teeth none of which are from bike injuries) and i hate the closed in feel. Are they safer probably and only if the accident is such that your face hits the ground. The probability of this is probably fairly low in the greater scheme of things. I think lots of riding experience and being very watchful of others is more important in keeping you safe. As for riding an Ural combination for me I would not even consider a full face if you feel like wearing an open face just do it - your not going that much faster than a racing cycle and you have three wheels. I think we are sometimes over cautious with safety, riding bikes can be dangerous but when your card is marked then a crashelmet, leather suit, Volvo estate or a challenger tank is not going to stop Mr Reaper collecting his dues.

"Are they safer probably and only if the accident is such that your face hits the ground. The probability of this is probably fairly low in the greater scheme of things.".

Just using common sense suggests that any accident involving parting company with the motorcycle in a "generally forward direction" will have a greater chance of involving the front of your body and therefore the front of your head.

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

Probably come across wrong by greater scheme of things i meant that all the factors involved lining up eg riding + miles covered +experience + having an accident + serious enough to involve being thrown from the bike + coming off forwards (as opposed to side ways backwards or whatever + head hitting ground or object + landing on front and face being injured specifically. There are lots of factors when you way it up a statistician would come up with a percentage of chance that may be quite low. However I really do accept that if you hit your face its going to get hurt. I have however no doubt that in other accidents where head neck chest injuries are present a full face helmet can and will cause many other problems - access to airways, neck injury removing the hat etc etc , Also there is somewhere on the net that suggests the largest amount of fatal accidents and serious injuries to motorcycle riders involve not the head (probably due to the wearing of crashelmets) but upper body and internal organs being damaged.

There were 560-odd motorcycle deaths in the UK in 2007. This is a lot lower than before 1973 when helmets really came into use, even when you estimate the number of deaths per mile. It is a well proven fact that helmets save lives (especially combined with better pedestrian protection measures on other vehicles).

The trouble is that the statistical collection then falls down, it lacks detail. Of the 560, we simply don't know how many weren't wearing a helmet (illegally), how many were lacking other forms of protection, how many were drunk or on drugs (lowers survival rate by reaction to drugs, inability to say where it hurts etc.), or how many were simply too far gone to save by any means (decapitations etc.). As the post mortem system isn't collated with accident investigation to any huge extent, we can't say how many internal injuries were a result of speed, lack of body armour, hitting road furniture and so on. There is even less data on injuries, so drawing a line between what works and what doesn't is hard. There is no data for people who came off, wrecked there gear but otherwise walked away, or those who saw the accident about to happen and took action to avoid it.

The Jury is firmly out on if the extra protection (proven by racers) of a full face outweighs the open faces improved comfort and vision.

One reason to deffinately choose full face is to protect your hearing. Personally I'm used to ear plugs and can't find a full face that doesn't feel like a letterbox vision wise and doesn't mist like a sauna. I prefer open face or flip front, but as a sidecarist, protection that applies to two wheels doesn't always have obvious uses, you'll never lowside an outfit.

Andy

Just to get back on thread for a minute - most of the trips people are coming to the Hubb to ask about involve large stretches of tarmac at, sadly, ever increasing speeds (West Africa can be done on well over 95% tarmac). This will only become the norm as countries develop their infrastructure.

If it's your first big trip and you are wondering about whether to take an open/fullface lid I would suggest you put the romance of open face helmets slightly on the backburner in favour of practicality - you will have plenty of other things to think about!

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Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

One reason to deffinately choose full face is to protect your hearing. Personally I'm used to ear plugs and can't find a full face that doesn't feel like a letterbox vision wise and doesn't mist like a sauna. I prefer open face or flip front, but as a sidecarist, protection that applies to two wheels doesn't always have obvious uses, you'll never lowside an outfit.

Andy[/quote]

Must admit my Davida is much much quieter than any full face helmet I have ever tried infact more so than a shuberth S1 which I bought in an attempt to go over to full face hats (but did not like so much ) and no longer have - went back to open face hats. The schuberth open face is quite noisy.

I cant agree with that . .. my experience of human nature is to cover your face / turn your head. Unless any impact is literally in your face, the full face offers no advantage. In almost all cases, before a helmet hits the road or is sliding into something, the owner of that helmet has already turned his head. Of the 100's of times you see GP riders coming off their bikes, have you ever seen any where the rider impacts something visor or chin first? I cant recall any (I am not implying it doesnt happen - but it does show its rare at best.).

An open face helmet still offers just as much "helmetage" over the back, sides and top.

Its not just the additional comfort and interaction I enjoy with the open face helmet, its the feeling of being more immersed in the surroundings ... I have a full face but hate it for touring. there's a heightened sense of "being there" with an open face.

Maybe its just me ... but comparing a full face to an open face (for me) is like comparing a enclosed car with a convertible, in terms of the overall feeling of "being there".

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Flying the chair on right handers is pretty straight forward, but cock it up on a left hander, you don't need a full face, you need a roll cage, so I don't push the limits unecessarily: You get no warning, or maybe 0.3 secs or so.....

Back wheel lifts over the sidecar body, so you have no engine breaking to scrub off speed and the front brake will only make it happen faster. Only way to save you skin is to hang as far off the left of the bike as humanly possible and hope: assuming you can react in that fraction of a second. Not nice!!!

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)