Originally Posted by tedmagnum

metal mule boxes.. I thought I was the "real deal"... .

Originally Posted by Tony P

Me too.
Actually I was reasonably happy with the MM boxes. I feel sure I got lots of admiring looks on the M25 and even more in the Channel Tunnel.

All across Europe and half of Russia and no complaint - but then the tarmac ended.

Within half a day on good graded gravel the frame started coming apart (totally inadequate securing system to rear footrest mounts - F650GS Dakar). On the second day a complete frame failure - a complete break on one side and a fracture nearly full way through on the other side. This was the start of 3 months and 12,000 miles off sealed surfaces.

Comprehensive welded reinforcing and then welding some improvised mounts directly to the bike by a local Russian mechanic, when I eventually limped into a village, gave not a moments problem thereafter. No charge!!!!

MM squash the frame tubes. Doesn't that weaken the inherent strength of a tube?
Then they bent the squashed tubes. Doesn't that further weaken it?

TT frames do not have these squashed tubes or bent mounting ends - they keep the integrity and strength of a circular tube and weld mounting brackets to them. For those with MM boxes needing frames you may like to know your boxes fit TT frames. Stronger? Certainly cheaper!

When I queried with MM about the top box not fitting on their new frame they had just sold me, because one tube was welded off position, I was told to put it in a vice, hack saw it, file it (i.e. file metal, not a writ!), and glue up the silicone again.
And this is top of the price range stuff, with DIY after sale service, rectifying manufacturing faults!

"Adventure Equipment for Motorcycles" it said on the tin. Bullocks.



Any comments Paul?

Originally Posted by tedmagnum

They are all very heavy.
They all require a very heavy frame to carry them.
They all bend out of shape from even minor falls.
They are all a pain to fix (metal mules especially).
They all made your bike as wide as a small car.

Then, after a practically walking speed tumble in sand, one ripped off and bent all the rediculously complicated (but easy to use) fanstening system..

After hammering my £1000 luggage back to usable condition (sick feeling, trust me) I set off again and then in a much faster crash they ripped off completely turning themselfs into junk... Very hard to straighten, especially with your limited tool kit.

Now, if you are never going to drop or crash your bike, sure they are great for security and almost make you look as cool as Ewan Mcgreggor but a good set of sturdy soft bags make soo much more sense for overland travel.

Cheaper, dead easy to fix, take alot of abuse and just squash rather than break, MUCH lighter, require only a simple frame (if at all), much narrower, much easier to carry etc.

I'm a total soft luggage convert for any proper travelling.. Security is taken care of with packsafes if you're paranoid.

And, if you do damage them.... All they take is a large needle and thick thread to fix them. Pefect !

Originally Posted by Mickey D

Good to see feedback from Alu pannier users who have converted. I remember Chris Scott talked about this in his book. He liked soft bags too if I remember correctly.

Yet today, when you look out there, you still see mostly Hard Alu panniers everywhere. Why? Are travelers really that dim? Having whacked my leg on one while dabbing through some sand, I'm a soft bag convert forever.

Is security THAT BIG of an issue most places? If you have to leave your bike with soft bags, what's the best way to protect them? I've seen those Pac-Safe steel cable mesh things but can't someone cut between and reach in? I guess you just have to keep a better eye on the bike.

I think the weight issue doesn't bother that many riders because they avoid off road situations completely. But in parts of the world is that really possible? I know many hire a truck to get them past the bad sections. On dirt bikes ounces are stressed over and thousands spent to source light weight parts. Must be a reason for this.

Mc D

Originally Posted by tedmagnum

In my opinion, the BEST solution isto keep your valuables in a removable tank bag and take it with you. Just keep clothes and low value stuff in your panniers.

Originally Posted by tedmagnum

I think people just assume a metal box is secure and durable.. It's great marketing isnt it.. it looks hardcore.

--It also looks secure and that is a deterent.--

As for security, the locks on most boxes are SHITE !!! You can break them off with a rock. I could open my MM boxes with a tyre lever and even the biggest padlock is only as strong as the crappy aluminium pop rivets that hold the lock on..

--Pop rivets are actually quite strong but could be repaced with small stainless steel fasteners [bolts].--

Woulnt put off anyone apart from a 10 year old.

--I've seen some pretty evil 10 yr olds in the UK .--


The pacsafes are in my opinion, safer.. You actually need wire cutters to get in. Who carries those around with them unless it's pre-meditated ???

--I do ,it's called a Leatherman --

Sure you can cut the bag and pull stuff out, but only if that stuff is small than say a tennis ball and then you'd have to get lucky where you are cutting.

--True but they might have all night to winkle that stuff out of there !--

In my opinion, the BEST solution isto keep your valuables in a removable tank bag and take it with you. Just keep clothes and low value stuff in your panniers.

--I've just read a ride report where a guy was surrounded by a few gang members and had his tank bag ripped off the bike whilst he was still riding it !--

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

They are all very expensive for what they are..

They are all very heavy.

They all require a very heavy frame to carry them.

They all bend out of shape from even minor falls.

They are all a pain to fix (metal mules especially).

They all made your bike as wide as a small car.


I practically ejaculated when I ordered and fitted my metal mule boxes.. I thought I was the "real deal"... Then I realised just how wide and heavy they made the bike.

Then, after a practically walking speed tumble in sand, one ripped off and bent all the rediculously complicated (but easy to use) fanstening system..

After hammering my £1000 luggage back to usable condition (sick feeling, trust me) I set off again and then in a much faster crash they ripped off completely turning themselfs into junk... Very hard to straighten, especially with your limited tool kit.

Now, if you are never going to drop or crash your bike, sure they are great for security and almost make you look as cool as Ewan Mcgreggor but a good set of sturdy soft bags make soo much more sense for overland travel.

Cheaper, dead easy to fix, take alot of abuse and just squash rather than break, MUCH lighter, require only a simple frame (if at all), much narrower, much easier to carry etc.

I'm a total soft luggage convert for any proper travelling.. Security is taken care of with packsafes if you're paranoid.

And, if you do damage them.... All they take is a large needle and thick thread to fix them. Pefect !

If you are certain that you want hard luggage PLASTIC Givi luggage is way better in my opinion.

It's also secure and hardwearing, much lighter and these tend to deform in tumble or crash and go back to their original shape. They are usually a fair bit cheaper too.. I paid £200 for a full set of plastic luggage for my Africa Twin of ebay and I love them.

If you do crack them, you can plastic weld them with melted coat hangers and a soldering or blowtorch.

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

They are all very expensive for what they are..

They are all very heavy.

They all require a very heavy frame to carry them.

They all bend out of shape from even minor falls.

They are all a pain to fix (metal mules especially).

They all made your bike as wide as a small car.


I practically ejaculated when I ordered and fitted my metal mule boxes.. I thought I was the "real deal"... Then I realised just how wide and heavy they made the bike.

Then, after a practically walking speed tumble in sand, one ripped off and bent all the rediculously complicated (but easy to use) fanstening system..

After hammering my £1000 luggage back to usable condition (sick feeling, trust me) I set off again and then in a much faster crash they ripped off completely turning themselfs into junk... Very hard to straighten, especially with your limited tool kit.

Now, if you are never going to drop or crash your bike, sure they are great for security and almost make you look as cool as Ewan Mcgreggor but a good set of sturdy soft bags make soo much more sense for overland travel.

Cheaper, dead easy to fix, take alot of abuse and just squash rather than break, MUCH lighter, require only a simple frame (if at all), much narrower, much easier to carry etc.

I'm a total soft luggage convert for any proper travelling.. Security is taken care of with packsafes if you're paranoid.

And, if you do damage them.... All they take is a large needle and thick thread to fix them. Pefect !

If you are certain that you want hard luggage PLASTIC Givi luggage is way better in my opinion.

It's also secure and hardwearing, much lighter and these tend to deform in tumble or crash and go back to their original shape. They are usually a fair bit cheaper too.. I paid £200 for a full set of plastic luggage for my Africa Twin of ebay and I love them.

If you do crack them, you can plastic weld them with melted coat hangers and a soldering or blowtorch.

Originally Posted by twowheels03

I agree very much with your view on alloy panniers, Ok for the odd Rally in a field or carting your sarnies into the city on your GS triple dark. We left home with two sets of TT zegas picked up like new off ebay - powder coated them - up graded the totally shite locks etc. One small fall bends the things out of square and lets the water in. We junked Angies boxes in the USA, she now has Wolfman panniers that have been great so far. I'm junking my TT boxes and converting 1550 Peli cases to panniers on TT frames for me. I've seen three overlanders with a Peli case set up and all have only good things to say. They look to survive off's well and are reasonably secure. I will say though that the TT frames are bloody good, My bike is LOADED and even after 7000 miles off road have been fine. Angie bent hers in falls and they bent back into shape and no breaks. Metal mule are by far the best alloy boxes but one fall and they will be buggered - My vote goes to Peli..

Paul