I can not say best as that is up to you but good boxes that may work for you are

The Zera TT Suzuki V-Strom Parts and Accessories from Touratech-USA

The Jesse system Xplorermoto: Jesse Luggage Odyssey II Bags

The Metal Mules Bikes | Metal Mule

The Happy trails V Strom DL650 - KLR650 & Adventure Touring Motorcycle Luggage and Aluminum Panniers

All seem to to the job all have problems and all have failed, so do all boxes just the way of things.

At one time people said that the DL650 had some problem with the pipe and the subframe Jesse, TT, and Givi all had problems. Givi went so far as to say there was no way to make a rack fit the DL650 like there rack for the DL1000. A few years latter they made it, it works.

Most compensate for the one pipe with the rack or a bigger box the same way they did for the old BMW F650. So it not that big of deal. My system on my DL650 is a happy trail rack with boxes off my F650 so the bike looks a bit off when you look at it but rides fine. The rack compensate for the pipe so do the boxes. one thing about that rack is shield on the pipe is in the way of the rack so you will need to cut it or gust take it off.

We use daerr boxes with Hepco&Becker racks on our 600 Tenere´s. See DÄRR - Trefferliste
They are very cheap in comparison to the other makes mentioned, and for us have proven to be good: 30 000 km from Holland to Cape Town and 40 000 km from Canada to Ushuaia (same boxes, same racks, minor welding needed).
If you fix the boxes with ratchet straps to the rack you can take them off the bike in under 1 minute.

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

They are all very expensive for what they are..

They are all very heavy.

They all require a very heavy frame to carry them.

They all bend out of shape from even minor falls.

They are all a pain to fix

They all made your bike as wide as a small car.


I practically ejaculated when I ordered and fitted my metal mule boxes.. I thought I was the "real deal"... Then I realised just how wide and heavy they made the bike.

Then, after a practically walking speed tumble in sand, one ripped off and bent all the complicated (but easy to use) fanstening system..

After hammering my £1000 luggage back to usable condition (sick feeling, trust me) I set off again and then in a much faster crash they ripped off completely turning themselfs into junk... Very hard to straighten, especially with your limited tool kit.

Now, if you are never going to drop or crash your bike, sure they are great for security and almost make you look as cool as Ewan Mcgreggor but a good set of sturdy soft bags make soo much more sense for overland travel.

Cheaper, dead easy to fix, take alot of abuse and just squash rather than break, MUCH lighter, require only a simple frame (if at all), much narrower, much easier to carry etc.

I'm a total soft luggage convert for any proper travelling.. Security is taken care of with packsafes if you're paranoid.

And, if you do damage them.... All they take is a large needle and thick thread to fix them. Pefect !

If you are certain that you want hard luggage PLASTIC Givi luggage is way better in my opinion.

It's also secure and hardwearing, much lighter and these tend to deform in tumble or crash and go back to their original shape. They are usually a fair bit cheaper too.. I paid £200 for a full set of plastic luggage for my Africa Twin of ebay and I love them.

If you do crack them, you can plastic weld them with melted coat hangers and a soldering or blowtorch.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Me too.
Actually I was reasonably happy with the MM boxes. I feel sure I got lots of admiring looks on the M25 and even more in the Channel Tunnel.

All across Europe and half of Russia and no complaint - but then the tarmac ended.

Within half a day on good graded gravel the frame started coming apart (totally inadequate securing system to rear footrest mounts - F650GS Dakar). On the second day a complete frame failure - a complete break on one side and a fracture nearly full way through on the other side. This was the start of 3 months and 12,000 miles off sealed surfaces.

Comprehensive welded reinforcing and then welding some improvised mounts directly to the bike by a local Russian mechanic, when I eventually limped into a village, gave not a moments problem thereafter. No charge!!!!

MM squash the frame tubes. Doesn't that weaken the inherent strength of a tube?
Then they bent the squashed tubes. Doesn't that further weaken it?

TT frames do not have these squashed tubes or bent mounting ends - they keep the integrity and strength of a circular tube and weld mounting brackets to them. For those with MM boxes needing frames you may like to know your boxes fit TT frames. Stronger? Certainly cheaper!

When I queried with MM about the top box not fitting on their new frame they had just sold me, because one tube was welded off position, I was told to put it in a vice, hack saw it, file it (i.e. file metal, not a writ!), and glue up the silicone again.
And this is top of the price range stuff, with DIY after sale service, rectifying manufacturing faults!

"Adventure Equipment for Motorcycles" it said on the tin. Bullocks.



Any comments Paul?

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Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

Don't expect Paul to comment. He doesn't answer e-mails unless it's "new buyers". Also had problems with top box not fitting "replacement" rear rack. Was told to just reposition feet attachment. When that didn't work, never again got a reply from MM. In the end had to come up with my own solution.

Everything MM is overpriced, after sales service is rubbish but the boxes alone are robust and (imho) functionally designed better than Touratech's best offering.

For anyone starting new, best to pair Touratech racks and Metal Mule pannier frames.

Good to see feedback from Alu pannier users who have converted. I remember Chris Scott talked about this in his book. He liked soft bags too if I remember correctly.

Yet today, when you look out there, you still see mostly Hard Alu panniers everywhere. Why? Are travelers really that dim? Having whacked my leg on one while dabbing through some sand, I'm a soft bag convert forever.

Is security THAT BIG of an issue most places? If you have to leave your bike with soft bags, what's the best way to protect them? I've seen those Pac-Safe steel cable mesh things but can't someone cut between and reach in? I guess you just have to keep a better eye on the bike.

I think the weight issue doesn't bother that many riders because they avoid off road situations completely. But in parts of the world is that really possible? I know many hire a truck to get them past the bad sections. On dirt bikes ounces are stressed over and thousands spent to source light weight parts. Must be a reason for this.

Mc D

I think people just assume a metal box is secure and durable.. It's great marketing isnt it.. it looks hardcore.

As for security, the locks on most boxes are SHITE !!! You can break them off with a rock. I could open my MM boxes with a tyre lever and even the biggest padlock is only as strong as the crappy aluminium pop rivets that hold the lock on..

Woulnt put off anyone apart from a 10 year old.

The pacsafes are in my opinion, safer.. You actually need wire cutters to get in. Who carries those around with them unless it's pre-meditated ???

Sure you can cut the bag and pull stuff out, but only if that stuff is small than say a tennis ball and then you'd have to get lucky where you are cutting.

In my opinion, the BEST solution isto keep your valuables in a removable tank bag and take it with you. Just keep clothes and low value stuff in your panniers.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

ditto

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Thanks for all the feedback people keep it coming please.
I have used soft luggage before on a 3 month trip round Europe,my problem with it was its lack of waterproofing,I now know I should have put everything in waterproof bags but this made packing far more problematic. I also just had throwovers which ended up rubbing on the rear tyre so a rack would solve that.
Also the security thing was not a huge issue as anything valuable I took with me,however I now regularly have a pillion so was thinking of the Alu boxes for extra security & peace of mind for her valuables too.
My next `big` trip is going to be mostly road based out to the Stans in a big loop via Scandinavia,Russia etc & coming back along the Med coast so off road durability is not a huge issue.
I have taken on board the weight issue,maybe soft bags would be better as already taking extra luggage (pillion)
Does anyone have feedback on the Wolfman panniers???
Back to the drawing board for a re-think,as I said please keep the suggestions coming they are very helpful

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Andy L

From the midnight sun to the silk & rhubarb roads, 2014
I am not an adventure rider, just a biker that has adventures.

If I was going anywhere risky ,I'd want hard panniers ,be they plastic or aluminum .

I agree that most of the panniers on the market are overpriced and many have serious flaws .

I didn't like what was on offer so I made my own ,now I'm on my "mark2":confused1: version and I can still see things that I would like to change and new features that I want to incorporate .

I haven't seen a set of soft panniers that I really liked yet ,the ones that I have used haven't been very durable or waterproof .The stuff inside can get mangled if you drop the bike ,they tend to be too small and a slide down the road will abrade them pretty badly .Plus they usually need a frame of some kind to support them and keep them off exhausts etc .
Something made out of waterproofed reinforced leather might be the answer .[no studded Harley bags please !]

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

hi,
i like the alloy panniers, usefull not only for carrying everything in a waterproof/semi secure place but also work well for resting roll bag on when loading the bike, useful also for sitting on when camping or using as a table.
i also think they help protect the bike in small offs.
The biggest problem i see with them is the racks are so weak on the ones you buy, so i made my own... ill be suprised if they break!

i also have a dl650 and find that the 'wasted' space on the side without an exhaust is a usefull space for a tool tube (or two)
take a look at mine here; mainlyduesouth-motorcycles

cheers
chris

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www.mainlyduesouth.com in support of the Colin McRae Vision

hmmm ... I am not trying to have a go, just to share my opinions and experiences (i guess that what the forums are for) ... but I think you (and others confronting this question) are basing your decisions on a lot of false premises and assumptions. (apologies to the O.P. who simply asked about choice of aluminium luggage but the thread seems to have morphed into a hard vs soft chat)

Firstly, metal boxes are only waterproof when in factory condition. The first time you drop the bike, they lose waterproofness as the lids no longer seal. The more you drop the bike the worse they get. Over a long tour, I can honestly say they will be far less waterproof than soft bags. If you have anything more that the smallest "off" the boxes will let in water like a paper bag. Lids dont seal properly anymore, loads gets in when it rains, and as soon as you drop the bike in mud or a puddle or a river, you have 50 kgs of water soaking through everything you own. Ask anyone who has done hard touring and had an ortlieb roll bag on the back. Its the ortlieb bag that is the most waterproof kit you will find, hard or soft.

Secondly, security. Over the last 16 years I have ridden across every continent but Antarctica, including places where everyone seems totally paranoid about thievery like Albania, Bolivia and Russia (and Liverpool). I have only ever used soft bags (but I have often ridden with guys who had hard boxes). I have NEVER had anyone steal anything from the bike or from my bags, despite about 20 months of "on road touring time" in that 16 years. That's enough time to say "knife" about 17 million times. (It's also enough time for a determined thief to wedge open the cheap lock on a metal box about 10 million times). A lot of that time has also been touring solo.

Thirdly, durability & protection. I always pack a mixture of thing in my soft side bags - including clothes, for the very purpose of keeping them "soft". Having flexible bags means the stuff inside does NOT suffer from the extreme vibrations that stuff inside metal boxes suffers from. As a result, stuff packed in soft bags is actually far less likely to suffer vibration damage than stuff in hard boxes. Further, in my experience, despite countless dropping of the bike on the soft side bags (and including a couple of high speed "crashes") I can say in completely good faith, that I don't believe ANYTHING has broken as a result of falls due to being packed in the soft bags ... in 16 years!

So I have to say, in my experience, empirical evidence for the arguments behind metal boxes just isn't there. In fact from first hand witnessing of friends who have ridden with metal boxes, the issue of waterproofness, and things being less likely to break inside metal boxes are not only not supported by evidence, but in fact the opposite is true in those two cases.

This isn't a recent view of mine, but it was well supported and further confirmed on the BAM Road ride across Siberia last year, when two of our three guys had soft bags and one had hard bags. It was the guy with the hard boxes who often ended up with a flooded pannier (to the brim), and the guy with the hard boxes whose stuff was breaking due to vibration inside the boxes (and the impact of very rough roads being directly passed on to the stuff inside the boxes).

I havent even touched the extra 12+ kgs the hard boxes added to his bike, or the great difficulty he had paddling the bike or even power walking the bike over hard terrain due to the inflexible metal boxes banging his legs. Or the worse handling suspension as a result of the weight being both higher up and further back than the soft bags. Or the extra 1000 pounds more a new set of hard boxes costs over soft bags.

While some guys pick soft bags because they are cheaper, I dont really care too much about that. I use soft bags because they are superior. The fact that I need to shell out 1000 quid less for the set up is a bonus, not a consideration in the decision making process.

Its pretty much a lay down misere if you ask me. But don't just ask me, ask the other guys who have been doing this for years...

Austin Vince uses soft bags
Lois Pryce uses soft bags
Chris Scott uses soft bags
Mac Swinarski uses soft bags
Ted Simon tried hard boxes and switched back to soft bags

I am quite amazed, with almost all the evidence stacked on one side, this debate actually still goes on.

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I agree with Touring Ted on this one - they are ALL far too costly (for what they are) and they damage too easily. A far better (and far cheaper) option is soft luggage. It's also lighter and hand portable.

The only downside as I see it with soft luggage is security (when you want to leave the bike for a short while). The only thing to do here is to take the thing with you.

I swear by good old leather saddle bags but the modern alternative seems to be a HUGE single bag tied down on top of the seat with bungee's.

Same old story - The manufacturers who make these things are being too GREEDY. They simply aren't worth what they are demanding...

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

Great thread here !
Was going to make my own Alu panniers and steel frame racks but people on here have made me think again....
Has anyone tried the Hepco + Becker Gobi system ? Has room for liquids between the skins and supposedly un breakable. Cheers.

I agree very much with your view on alloy panniers, Ok for the odd Rally in a field or carting your sarnies into the city on your GS triple dark. We left home with two sets of TT zegas picked up like new off ebay - powder coated them - up graded the totally shite locks etc. One small fall bends the things out of square and lets the water in. We junked Angies boxes in the USA, she now has Wolfman panniers that have been great so far. I'm junking my TT boxes and converting 1550 Peli cases to panniers on TT frames for me. I've seen three overlanders with a Peli case set up and all have only good things to say. They look to survive off's well and are reasonably secure. I will say though that the TT frames are bloody good, My bike is LOADED and even after 7000 miles off road have been fine. Angie bent hers in falls and they bent back into shape and no breaks. Metal mule are by far the best alloy boxes but one fall and they will be buggered - My vote goes to Peli..

Paul