Hi,I have a K7 DL650 which has Suzuki panniers & top box,while these are great for "hostel hopping" I find their shape too restrictive for a longer trip which will involve camping gear. I plan to replace the top box with a rack so I can strap a decent sized Ortileb/Wolfman/similar bag to it as I have found that gives me more flexibility packingwise.
I have done some research on here & the web about Alu panniers (not interested in soft luggage for this,been there,done that) but still confused as to best option
I often have a pillion so need a reasonable capacity to cope with two peoples equipment,Tesch seem good but worried about the rack fitting my bike(silencer on one side only so wasted space on the other side);Metal Mule seem well made but very pricey & am not keen on a hinged lid;Touratech Pro would fit to bike well but have read some negative comments.
Any helpful comments gratefully received

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Andy L

From the midnight sun to the silk & rhubarb roads, 2014
I am not an adventure rider, just a biker that has adventures.

I've got a set of these on my XT660Z, and I couldn't agree with any negativity on these. The original Zega panniers yes, they had some issues - especialy with the locks but the new stuff is pretty indestructable I would say. I didn't bother with the anodised ones, didn't see the need for spending an extra £100 and besides I quite like the 'used' look of the plain alloy ones, after a couple of days on the road. The Pro's come with multi safety catches on the locks, and a lanyard between the lid and the box, you can also 'hing' them on one of the locks so you don't need to remove the whole lid to get into them (like anything though, if a thief wants in, they will get in). The top loops are mounted flush with the lid, so you can still use them as a reasonable table / seat combo, and they will take the weight of a Tenere, not sure about the Strom though.

There are other options available, from modified ammo boxes that cost buttons (you then have to make them fit , paint them etc) but are a bit on the heavy side - not a problem if you're bike can take the extra weight. to the MM stuff, which I think is a bit over priced (but then so is TT, IMHO).

There is a post on here that has instructions on how to build your own panniers, so this would give you exactly what you want.

There's Allit Panniers that come it at 200 Euros

Klaus Grützner - Gepäcksysteme - Online Shop

And some others I've seen that are around £80 each - but for the life of me I can't remember who made them....

I have and like the Tesch boxes with the hinge-less lids. Can you fit a flatter silencer?
Mine are on an R100GS and look "balanced"

Another thing about the Tesch boxes, with a nice flat mounting surface, you mount them as far forward as you can for solo use. Then when you have a pillion, you mount them on the opposite sides and it gives extra room for your passenger

John

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Nostradamus Ate My Hamster

These Alpos cases seem to be pretty good,and not badly priced.
Bykebitz Motorcycle Accessories Ltd ALPOS CASES AND FITTING KITS

Andy

I can not say best as that is up to you but good boxes that may work for you are

The Zera TT Suzuki V-Strom Parts and Accessories from Touratech-USA

The Jesse system Xplorermoto: Jesse Luggage Odyssey II Bags

The Metal Mules Bikes | Metal Mule

The Happy trails V Strom DL650 - KLR650 & Adventure Touring Motorcycle Luggage and Aluminum Panniers

All seem to to the job all have problems and all have failed, so do all boxes just the way of things.

At one time people said that the DL650 had some problem with the pipe and the subframe Jesse, TT, and Givi all had problems. Givi went so far as to say there was no way to make a rack fit the DL650 like there rack for the DL1000. A few years latter they made it, it works.

Most compensate for the one pipe with the rack or a bigger box the same way they did for the old BMW F650. So it not that big of deal. My system on my DL650 is a happy trail rack with boxes off my F650 so the bike looks a bit off when you look at it but rides fine. The rack compensate for the pipe so do the boxes. one thing about that rack is shield on the pipe is in the way of the rack so you will need to cut it or gust take it off.

We use daerr boxes with Hepco&Becker racks on our 600 Tenere´s. See DÄRR - Trefferliste
They are very cheap in comparison to the other makes mentioned, and for us have proven to be good: 30 000 km from Holland to Cape Town and 40 000 km from Canada to Ushuaia (same boxes, same racks, minor welding needed).
If you fix the boxes with ratchet straps to the rack you can take them off the bike in under 1 minute.

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

They are all very expensive for what they are..

They are all very heavy.

They all require a very heavy frame to carry them.

They all bend out of shape from even minor falls.

They are all a pain to fix

They all made your bike as wide as a small car.


I practically ejaculated when I ordered and fitted my metal mule boxes.. I thought I was the "real deal"... Then I realised just how wide and heavy they made the bike.

Then, after a practically walking speed tumble in sand, one ripped off and bent all the complicated (but easy to use) fanstening system..

After hammering my £1000 luggage back to usable condition (sick feeling, trust me) I set off again and then in a much faster crash they ripped off completely turning themselfs into junk... Very hard to straighten, especially with your limited tool kit.

Now, if you are never going to drop or crash your bike, sure they are great for security and almost make you look as cool as Ewan Mcgreggor but a good set of sturdy soft bags make soo much more sense for overland travel.

Cheaper, dead easy to fix, take alot of abuse and just squash rather than break, MUCH lighter, require only a simple frame (if at all), much narrower, much easier to carry etc.

I'm a total soft luggage convert for any proper travelling.. Security is taken care of with packsafes if you're paranoid.

And, if you do damage them.... All they take is a large needle and thick thread to fix them. Pefect !

If you are certain that you want hard luggage PLASTIC Givi luggage is way better in my opinion.

It's also secure and hardwearing, much lighter and these tend to deform in tumble or crash and go back to their original shape. They are usually a fair bit cheaper too.. I paid £200 for a full set of plastic luggage for my Africa Twin of ebay and I love them.

If you do crack them, you can plastic weld them with melted coat hangers and a soldering or blowtorch.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Now that's a COOL idea! Nice job. I'll do this when I mount mine.
Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

whatever you do don't go near caja sahel.
absolute crap. designed with corner welds, made from shoddy chinese aluminium.
if he's still making the dodgy sh1te he sent me, he'll be out of business by now anyway.
cheers,
andrew

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HEY , Everyone over at UKgser swears by them ,
There have been quite a few Major Trips undertaken using them
and i have only ever heard Praise for the Pannier set .

What happened yours ?

Re: Metal Mules - friends have them on an F800GS & R1200GS Adventure. I notice that many of the mounts just consist of the frame tubes squashed flat & a hole drilled through. To me, this looks very weak, is this where they fracture? I deliberately avoided this design when I made pannier frames recently despite it being the easiest option by far.

Re: Caja Sahel - I can't comment on their durability but I think that the mounting system is primitive to say the least. I've seen a set on a friends R12GS, where the mounting bolts pass through the back of each pannier, the holes had ovalled. They really need to be bushed to support the weight properly.

What's best, panniers that come off in a tumble, hopefully before too much damage is done or securely bolted on panniers that stay on the bike in a crash & take the full impact?

I nearly bought hard panniers last year for my 950SE but was let down by the supplier. With hindsight, I'm glad & am now a convert to soft luggage. Louis roll bag on the back, Ortlieb panniers & a TT tankbag borrowed from my 1150.I'll soon be replacing the Ortliebs with Wolfman Expedition Panniers, Ortliebs going on to my partners DRZ.

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Well my 10p worth,
1) it would depend on your riding & where your going i.e. if all road tarmac it don't really matter of soft or hard box's, just bear in mind the speed your riding & & loss of fuel over the wait by the distance & drag factor. (not much i suppose really),
if going on some of the more adventures roads (dirt track etc) I would suggest you look @ the Ali box's full stop. they will help protect your gear & possibly the bike's wheels. I find it strange they can fall apart that easy!!
I know on the GS forum there is a guy who makes his own £300 loads of guys buy them from him as they are really good, (no i have not got any),
as for the panniers frames look @ Motohaus Powersports Limited S W Motech Side Carriers, Alu Racks and Boxes

I honestly think the only reason 90% of ppl riding any bike have used the Ali style box's because a certain 2 ppl used them good free publicity. If KTM had gave them the bikes would every one be bimbling about on ktm's probably.

Overall look at style of riding & where your going/distance, look at the amount of gear you will need/want to take.

btw I have used both & found the soft option ok for going a way for a few days or quick bit of shopping, the ali for more distance

only my 10p worth

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We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

I would like to suggest another option. When we did our UK to Cape Town trip - my wife and I on a 1989 R100GS we needed decent luggage capacity for as my wife puts it 'living on the bike for a year'. I knocked up plywood panniers and some fairly heavy duty frames (20mm square section tube) which used the existing mounting points. In the whole design there is no attempt to save weight which may be the only downside. Everything you see on the bike i.e. panniers + contents and frames, all the other bags including tank bag, water carriers (empty) and the front rack weighed in at 91kg just after this photo was taken on our return to Devon, which I don't think is too bad for 2 people. The bike was a bit of a handful in the desert and the panniers were mounted a little low and tended to dig in on twisty tarmac roads. After a number of hard falls in the Kalahari we did manage to cause some slight damage to one pannier but this was easily fixed after a quick visit to a hardware shop in Ghanzi for a few wood screws.





It appears I unwittingly incorporated some interesting features not seen on other hard luggage:

• Panniers are side opening. Lid is about 2/3 of the pannier height and folds down to make a shelf ideal for making a roadside brew! The bottom part of the pannier was used to store stuff we didn't need everyday. Waterproofing was not a problem although we never completely submerged them.
• The panniers lift off the frames and make ideal camping seats. The black bar around the top is hinged and padlocked at the back to hold the pannier to the bike and the lid closed.
• The frames pick up on the standard fixing points and are braced across the back as well and I believe this added strength to the rear subframe. I know the paralever subframe is better than the monolever but with rider and passenger totalling 150kg and 90kg of luggage it needed all the help it could get

If we have the opportunity to do another overland trip I would try to make up an improved system in aluminium with at least some attempt to keep the weight down. Definately be on the same bike.

Major trips on UKGser usually consists of a cafe on a Welsh hill though don't they ?

Just joking, I've got no experience of them.


My Metal Mule frames showing their strength

That was a 70mph crash on sand/gravel and they still worked once they were straightened up with a metal fence post. Can't really complain there.

Touratech ones are stronger I think, they use the same hoops.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

IMHO I can see the merit of both soft luggage and panniers.

If I was going to ride on soft or muddy surfaces where the risk of tipping over was considerably higher then I would change my hard luggage (H&B Standard Alu) to soft or at the very least consider the risks and financial strain.

I also think that most people that use hard luggage (alu or other) don't consider how much they might fall off, they don't want to consider the worst case scenario and what it would mean to fix the bike if like with Touring Ted's photos, the bike was always rubber side up... oops No harm meant

So I've come up with this formula to help provide some direction to other's in their buying decision.

Choose Soft luggage if:

(Riding time on soft surface > 200 metres)
AND
((Riding skill on soft surfaces < 3 years experience) OR (Motorcycle & luggage combined mass > 180kgs))
OR
(Number of drops >= x)
OR
(Available funds $$ < (co$t of repair OR co$t of replacement of hard luggage))

For all else choose hard luggage.


I've made the following assumptions based on the above.

• Soft surfaces include sand, mud, bulldust, or anything else where your sidestand would dig in and you're bike would topple over if you weren't there holding it upright.
• Riding on 200 metres or more means in one single stretch that can not be avoided.
• X is determined as the variable for the number of falls, tips, offs or other where the rubber is not touching the road and your nerve is about to break if your hard luggage hasn't already. X is also known as the breaking point for conversion to soft luggage.
• Repair and replacement cost(s) assume that certain amount of damage has been inflicted to said hard panniers and that they don't serve intended/desired purpose and hence need to be repaired or replaced.

The above may not apply in your specific set of circumstances so use your own discretion in making any financial decisions as I or any associated party will not be held liable and/or accountable for any injury and/or damage incurred by following the above. The above does not constitute advice but merely the opinion of a reader.

if there are any computer programmers interested in the formula in say C or VB code just flick me a PM. (Oh and yes I have a serious case of mondayitis!!! )

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net