Mr Ron stopped by and put on a new tire.
It is a Metzeler Enduro 3 Sahara "Tube type"
It was not his first choice.
When he left it was seated fine and holding air but he did not put a tube in it.
What do you think ? he has always tube-less tires, can he get away with no tube on a tube type tire.
He asked me to post this so he will have answer when he gets home.
If his tire blows out he will have his answer before he gets home.
John

I don't think using a tube type tyre without a tube is a good idea? Doesn't the bead differ between the two types, for sealing purposes?

[This message has been edited by Steve Pickford (edited 10 August 2005).]

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Hello! Made it into Vancouver today with no problem! Tire leaked slightly from the bead until i hit 200 miles of gravel. Ran it at 28 pounds off-road and 34 pounds on the highway. John, my front tire blew in California, good thing i bought that tube, eh! Anyways, i think the big difference between tube and tubeless is weather you can fix it with a plug. Any other comments?? I'll continue running this tire tubeless untill i'm forced to install a tube.

BTW..i run tubeless Akront rims...

there is a difference between tube and tubeless tires and rims.

Tubeless rims are designed to hold the bead i nplace better, generally with a small ridge - that's why they're so hard to get off. Reason of course is that if the bead breaks you lose all air instantly! With a tube type the bead could break momentarily and the tube pressure would just reseat the tire.

I would personally consider it unsafe to run a tubeless tire on a tube type rim without a tube. (that's not taking into account the sealing issues around spokes or not, just the seating of the bead issues)

Tube type tire on a tubeless rim without a tube - unknown territory there, and I'm sure the manufacturers of both tire and rim would strongly recommend against it! I wouldn't run that combo myself. Might be fine, but I don'twant to be the guinea pig thanks.

Thanks for doing the testing so far Ron! If you have any problems be sure to let us know.

Grant

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

ON a related note where do people stand on the tubes vs tubeless issue.

I've had a spate of punctures recently on my tubed Dakar. I've had slime, supposedly specifically for tubes, in the rear for nearly two years. Although it did slow down the puncture and I could rode several hundred miles on it over three days, it did not stop the leak totally although it claimed it would.

So each time I have had a new tube.

Sealants for tubeless tyres do seem to have a better reputation for a permanent fix, as do plugs.
So what are the benefits of a tubed bike? I'm seeing fewer.

plus - if you have a screw/nail embedded, but the air is holding - do you remove it or leave it until it does start to leak?

Richard

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Richb
http://www.postmaster.co.uk/~richardbeaumont/60684/

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Richb
http://www.postmaster.co.uk/~richardbeaumont/60684/

Richard, in my experience i prefer tubeless over tube anyday. You can sometimes fix a tubeless with a plug without removing the tire. Tubeless tires don't creep when under low preasure for off-roading, where tube-tires require rim-locks, a huge PITA in my opinion. Tubeless tires are built stronger and can sustain heavy damage and still get you home. On my last trip i had a 2" cut on my sidewall of my TKC-80. With a patch inside to help hold things together and a tube added to hold the air, i managed over 1000 miles in brutally hot weather with no problems and a hole i could stick my thumb through. I donot beleive the average tube tire would of held up.
As most lessons in life, i learned mine the hard way: even with tubeless tires, always carry a spare tube! Sidewall punctures are not fixable and a tube is your only option. Be sure to carry an electric air-pump, and maintain it! I had to tear mine apart and fix it on the side of the road in the middle of a desert. After 20000 miles in the bottom of my pannier, the fittings worked loose and it couldn't build up enough preassure to seal the bead. Don't try to save weight with short flimsy tire-irons, the extra few pounds pays it's weight in gold!I use 14" cast steel irons. Finally, the most important thing to carry along with your tire repair kit is a big bottle of dish soap! Use lots on the bead of the tire to help it slip up onto its step. This also aids in breaking the bead with only tire-irons. I've been successful in breaking the bead on all tires i've put on using soap. If i allow a shop to replace a tire, i give them the soap and ask them to use lots for future benifit.
For problems sealing the bead, i carry a strap of 1" high-strength nylon webbing. Mine is rated for 2000LB (a very useful gift from a fellow i met at the Creel rally last year) Tie this around the outside of the tire creating a band. Insert the largest wrench from your kit and twist, tightning the band and sealing the bead to the rim. At this point the large amounts of soap will help create a seal. Once a seal is established, remove the strap and continue to pump up to the tires rating. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CLEAR OF THE BEAD!! If the bead is stubborn and doesn't want to pop, simply bounce the tire off the road until it does.
More than once i've pinched the tube while trying th wrestle the tire back onto it's rim, making you do everything over again. I think this is the main reason i prefer tubeless. I once put a plug in a rear Tourance and it lasted longer than the tread, over 15000 miles! However, YMMV

I second your comments,Mr Ron.If you have the rims to go tubeless,i'd always do so.As far as the difference between tube and tubeless tyres is concerned,the bead bit of the tubeless tyre has a slightly thicker layer of rubber to help sealing whereas the tube type can sometimes be practically the canvas/kevlar material.I've looked at most makes recently and there does'nt seem to be much of a difference anymore,with all the tyres i've seen having a rubber bead.One tip i've found if you simply can't get hold of a T/L tyre for your T/L rim,is to use a bit of the sealing compound that fitters use.It's a sort of pink colour,the consistency of butter and works a treat!Also very handy if you've got a little bit of alloy corrosion on the seating bit of the rim.For a realy good setup,T/L tyres with OKO sealant inside(slime),and baring a split sidewall,you should'nt have any punctures.If you do pickup a nail or screw,LEAVE IT ALONE,and let the slime do it's job.

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Just going for a short ride on my bike....

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Just going for a short ride on my bike....