No point worrying about waterproof soft bags. A few good stacks on gravel roads and you'll find with the next decent shower that you haven't got any dry clothes and your sleeping gear is wet. Although the consensus is that with GL gear the sleeping gear goes behind it in it's own bag using the large centre straps.

Either way, I reckon you shouldn't rely on it anyway. There are plenty waterproof roll closure bags available now to waterproof from the inside those things like fabrics that can't get wet. I stuff the tent fly and inner seperately in the stuff sacks they provide. That way if the fly is soaked I can dry it during the day at lunch or something without having to deal with the inner. Stuffing instead of rolling/ folding makes breaking camp quicker as well.

They now come with storm flaps, but the seams aren't waterproof anyway. They do come with a tube seal sealant though if you want to go down that route. How good is that? I should get a commission from these guys.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

I rode to Cornwall in the rain, parked up with the zipper facing the rain ........was left with 2 goldfish bowls (VERY waterproof from the inside out)

Are yours the "new and improved" ones ??

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Just bought the giant loop great basin. Bought it from Twalcom in Italy, the cheapest seller if you live in Europe. Didn't ride with it that much, but looks very solid. Fitting is very easy also. Only one small issue when fitted on my xt600: the bag fits fine, but it doesn't leave me alot space on the saddle to sit. It's enough, but I can't wear a waistpack anymore. Looking forward to give it a thorough test though.

__________________
http://tufferpuffer.wordpress.com/

Yeah, that's right. But this means its very close to COG. I can wear a camelbak Rogue packed to the max. Occasionally I can feel it touching the bag, but nothing major. Off course I've got the Coyote. The great basin is way to big for my liking making the COG higher.

If you look on the instructions it should say how to keep it positioned by grinding little slots in the plastic to prevent it sliding forward. This may be your problem.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Hi,

Its simpel. You want less wait so go without panniers. Its doable but will be more expensive. You can find someone who can do repairs for you anywhere if you dont have your own tools and will also find a place to sleep everywhere if you dont carry your own tent etc.

I recently met a guy who was traveling onely with his creditcard and GPS on his BMW F 650GS. Its onely the beginners (like me) who are carrying much to much stuff, because they dont know what they can expect in countrys far away and dont know how long bearings and tires lasts.

Every trip i make i carry less stuff, so one day i will also end up with one Ortlieb back inkluding papers, maps, camera, 12V battery charger, diary, toothbrush, chainlube, moscito net and navigation system.

LG, Tobi
Offroad Motorrad Touren Transafrika, Marokko, Tunesien, Kroatien und mehr

I thought that riding with soft luggage would be cheaper than with panniers. A rack and alu panniers is damn expensive. And fixing them when it's broken once again looks also more expensive...
But as I want to ride ultramegasuper light and compact, I'm facing alot of expences. I bought all my camping material with only one requirement: being ultra light. My tent, sleepingbag and mat weighs under 2 kg in total (Vaude Power Lizard UL, Vaude Sioux 100, thermarest neoair) and packs in a very small bag. Disadvantage is that this stuff is extremely expensive...

__________________
http://tufferpuffer.wordpress.com/

Just tried it, and it does fit ! :-)

__________________
http://tufferpuffer.wordpress.com/

Hi,

Well if someone is stupid enoth to get those panniers at your local dealer they are probably more expensive then my bike but if you make them your selfe out of what ever steel and aluminum you have its dead cheap and usuarly easy to repair as well.

If you specialy by camping material for this trip it allready starts getting expensive. Extreme light stuff usuarly does not last for years. If you dont realy care about wait you can use whatever you allready have from your last trips etc. You see everything has two sides like allways...

LG, Tobi

Yeah, it really isn't. How many square metres of ali and metres of steel tubing do you think people have lying around? And how many people do you think can use a TIG and MIG welder? It's still not cheaper than sewing a torn soft bag back together. Also, I was lucky to find a TIG welder in the area in South America I was in to weld my DIY pannier back together after the weld failed.

As for lightweight camping gear. It doesn't have to cost a lot more. Just don't go straight to the top brands if you can't justify it. There are heaps of tiny brands around for lightweight tents or sleeping gear if you look around for it. Also, try and define the temp constraints you need to allow for. If you look after your gear it should last for years. I've worn through plenty of Cordura fabric over the years, but this is user error. Not Dupont's fault.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Hi,

Well these days everybody owns a drill and its not hard to get used pices of steel or Alu. With this you can make a rack even without any welding. In your local hardware store or at rubish places you get cheap metal boxes wich you can easyli scrow on. Finished. Of corse a bag is still cheaper but thats not the point.

The main argument against boxes is they are to heavy because with boxes you have more space and take too much stuff which you dont realy need

Travel save, Tobi

Fair call. But I reckon most people aren't that handy in the garage and tend to spend the money instead of making it themselves. I surely did.

For me the argument isn't just the weight. It's also where it is. Designers spend a lot of time and money balancing the bike. All this hard work is immediately wasted by the time all that crap is bolted on. To me this make the bike less safe as well. So it's weight + in-balance + high cost + less safety = bad idea.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Hi,

Well i think boxes are more safe. Not onely for the goods inside but they also protect the bike like crash bars and the legs of the one riding it. So the leg of the one riding the bike cant be jammed unterneeth the bike.

For wait resons it is definitly better to carry the stuff beside the bike insted of high up on the sozius seat. I agree it would be better to have more wait in soft cases beside the tank...

LG, Tobi

That just doesn't make any engineering sense to me. I can't think of an example where a soft item (you) is protected for impact by a hard item. I've seen first hand what an impact with a pannier does to someone. Several times. All I can say is that I was relieved we went for cross boots. With narrowed panniers at each crash the leg got caught under the bike. Which if you think about an impact in slow motion considering the forward momentum it makes perfect sense. The first item (your leg) hitting the ground will loose momentum (for lack of a better description) whilst the bike continues. In rough terrain with factory panniers I've had heaps of knocks from the pannier front face. Either way, it was impact with a hard item. With soft luggage the luggage acts as a cushion. Taking the energy of the impact. Not as good for hard gear inside it. But I don't have to much of that anyway.

For the bike it's the same principle. The rack distributes the load but still as a point load to the subframe. This is still the case with soft panniers. With the GL the bike falls more naturally. The impact if much closer to the central mass of the bike. Acts as a cushion still. We've had a pannier completely destroyed beyond repair by a proper crash on a trip. The ipod inside died.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

I always use soft luggage on my dual sport. I try to keep as much of the weight down low to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible (it's an antipodean thing to raise the centre of gravity on a motorbike!).
Oddly perhaps, i still use a pannier rack to protect the soft luggage from scraping the rear tire or burning on the exhaust...my 2 cents.