I am currently looking to buy a 4x4 to do a trip through africa in. I wa wondering if anyone could give me anymore info on the pros and cons of manual v automatic transmission for such a trip.

Also would a Nissan Patrol be a close equivalent to a toyota landcruiser?

Hi Patrick,
Welcome to the HUBB,

Pros of Auto:
-less stress on engine and drivetrain.

-no clutch to wear out.

-very good in sand/snow/ice/slippy mud with a smoother torque delivery and quicker gearchanges (Vs time with clutch disengeged and foot off throttle -vehicle losing momentum) = less wheelspin/bogging - especially pulling away.

-will climb hills/dunes better beceause of this.

-will always be in correct gear for the vehicles speed.

- very quick to change from D to R - to rock the vehicle out if bogged.

-The latest tiptronic (or equivilent) are excellent- best of both worlds

- great in stop start traffic !

-more relaxing but less involved driving.


Cons Of Auto:
-auto gearbox is heavier, more complicated, are generally more expensive, they are harder to field repair.

-auto boxes run hotter due to torque converter especially under heavy load - a gearbox oil cooler is a good idea if not already fitted.

- poor engine braking on steep decents -worst combo is auto/petrol engine - best combo is manual/diesel engine - not so relevant in sand as you have to use a higher gear and light throttle on the back of steep dunes - but in rock and steep muddy decents its a big disadvantage - you move a lot faster - and as you brake there is a risk of sliding. A manual/diesel gives amazing slow speed control without use of the brakes.

- increased fuel consumption, again due to losses withing the torque converter

-slower acceleration and overtaking - though with a larger engine this is negated.



A diesel auto is a good combo - the better fuel consumption of the diesel helping to minimise the losses of the auto box, I would definitley consider one for a trip.

As for TLC/Patrol - for me the TLC is hard to beat - a nice VX 4.2 diesel auto is about as good as it gets.

Im sure the guys can think of plenty more......

Cheers
Grif

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

There is some more points worth remembering about an A/T cars

- you can't jump start an auto
- you can't stall it on ascents
- driving on sand is best done in low range, even though some engines (like 1HD-T) can cope.

Loss of engine breaking on steep descent is up to the engine/gearbox combination. Try LC HDJ80 and you will be surprised how well it can be controlled downhill.

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Roman (UK)

for my 2 pennies worth, as roman said, an auto won't stall, which is also useful when wading if you get stuck or hit an underwater obstruction. if you stall a manual water will hydraulic up the exhaust. (don't think that just because your in Africa you won't see water!)

An auto allows superior low speed manouverability as it won't stall, so is popular with the 'rock climbers' in america

biggest con of autos is you can't choose your gears, even if it has some selectability the 'mum' feature will over-ride this in certain circumstances, so if you want to hold a gear, for example, you can't, the auto will change. personally I find this sufficiently irritating to not use an auto.
the nissan is comparable to toyota in terms of toughness, ability and size and is pretty much as well known in many places, notably west Africa.

TLC H60
Landy 101 Ambie
1968 Morris minor Traveller
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Captain-Mog...3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm

__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

If it had no problems, Auto.
If it did have problems, Manual.

[QUOTE=Roman]There is some more points worth remembering about an A/T cars

- you can't jump start an auto
- you can't stall it on ascents


Roman, Do you mean bump start...... ???

also - you can stall an auto - just come off the gas on a steep ascent and let it roll back at tickover in D....it will stall......unless your in a New Gen Rangie which stops you rolling backwards.....though yes, autos are much easier to hold and pull away with on a hill....

Moggy - on the later Rover ZF Autos in low box - if you select 3-2-1 it will stay in that gear till the red line...(but only in low box) also the 'command shift' (tiptronic) on the New LRs means you stay in the gear you select - again and you can easily change on the fly - it does work well...just too much electrical gubbins for me..though the ZF boxes are about the most reliable thing on them !!!

Not sure about the Toyota auto boxes holding the gear though.....

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Having owned both manual & automatic Patrols, I agree with nearly everything above but would not say that sand is always 'best' done in low range. It depends on the softness of the sand but almost all of my sand driving is in high range and a lot of that can be in 2WD too with correct tyre pressures.

Red one below is automatic.
Dark green is manual.
The BMW is having a rest.

Stephan

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Stephano,

Without getting too academic, yes perhaps you can do it always, but watch out for auto gearbox temperature. Shifting to low range allows some load to be taken off the A/T by the transfer box.

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Roman (UK)

Moggy said: biggest con of autos is you can't choose your gears, even if it has some selectability the 'mum' feature will over-ride this in certain circumstances, so if you want to hold a gear, for example, you can't, the auto will change. personally I find this sufficiently irritating to not use an auto.

You can of course just leave the box in 1H or 1L, 2H or 2L or 3H or 3L, with overdrive in or out in 3rd so there is a fair amnount of selectivity available. With practice and the help of a passenger you can change between H and L pretty quickly. If you find the box keeps chan ging up a gear, just set it back one notch.

Moggy also said:the nissan is comparable to toyota in terms of toughness, ability and size and is pretty much as well known in many places, notably west Africa.

Would like this confirmed. Not sure I'd swap my TLC 80 for a Patrol.

__________________
pigapitcha

http://www.jljphotography.co.uk

Hi,

This is true in general, but not so with an HDJ 80 auto trans. Engine braking is very, very good in high and low range.

__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/

Hi NCR,
So does an Auto TLC 80 go as slow as a manual TLC80 down a 100% (45degree) slope ? I do not think so........

The bigger the engine cc the better the engine braking - and especially with a large capacity high compression diesel, definitley, I totally agree.

But the weight of the vehicle will always overcome the slip in the torque converter - and make it pick up more speed than a manual gearbox - the engine will still be at near tickover, but the vehicle will run faster on STEEP decents, which was my point.

granted, the TLC has great engine braking - the TLC80 auto is probably better than my manual Defender 90 - on the steep stuff - due to cc

another couple of auto v manual points .....

the manual gearbox vehicle is safer to stop on a slippery decent - all you do is turn the engine off (not engaging the steering lock!) and bring the engine to a stop with gentle progressive footbraking - super smooth and very safe.

with the auto - all you have is the footbrake to stop - not good.

It was mentioned that you can select the gear you want to stay in...
Low 123 or High 123 - this works to limit the gearbox from changing UP - but not DOWN
- so if you want to pull away in 3rd low you cant -(except with LR ZF boxes - unless you know different? - go and try with your toyotas)

If you select 3rd low hold and want to pull away in 3rd - it will step through 1st and 2nd before changing into 3rd often giving you too much torque -especially on slippery terrain, snow, ice, hill starts etc.

This is where a tiptronic box is great you can select 3rd low and it will change into 3rd low and stay there - or if you put it into 2nd high thats the gear it stays in.

As for the high and low range debate - remember theres a lot of overlap betweent he ranges - on a Defender - 5th low is about the same as 3rd high, I spend quite a lot of time in 5th low between dune sections, saves doing a range change up and down and you are always ready with the control and torque of low range if you hit a soft patch or need the engine braking.

I like to drive in the highest gear the vehicle will pull for the conditions - for fuel economy - be it high or low range.

If it cheers anyone up - here in Banff the other day the -40 screenwash in the Disco was freezing up......brrrrr ...............but theres lots of snow

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Hi Y'all. I am not getting into which is better (auto or manual) but just a point of note, on the HDJ80's if you select 2nd (auto) it will pull away in second, not 1st then 2nd. This is really neat!
But I do know that a lot of autos, like Gripper says, go through the gears until they get to the gear you've selected. I think modern autos are much more efficient and do what you want them to do. In fact I believe that it is not possible to buy a new Landcruiser with a manual gearbox!
Anyway, I'm off now to finish the rest of that bottle of wine I started before we took the dog for a walk....

Cheers,
Matt Savage

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www.mattsavage.com
VIAIR - 12 & 24 volt compressors and systems. Tyre levers, Land Rover parts, Sand Tracks, Allisport Intercoolers, Overland Prep, and much more...

Matt - Nice one - is that in high or low box - or both ?

Ive often wanted to put a Toyota 4.2 straight six diesel into the Disco and get rid of the rather thirsty V8...maybe I should try and shoehorn a GM Duramax V8 diesel in.....

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Hi Gipper,

Yes, I think so. Maybe even slower. Have you tried one yet?
In an auto TLC you will only use low range when in great slopes or crossing obstacles slowly, as the car speed, even in D, is very, very slow and the gear changes only occur at about 3000 RPM. For instance I CANT drive in the sand in low range because I cant gain speed and momentum at resonable engine speed...
In a manual TLC, the use of Low Range is mutch more common, even in the sand.

__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/

Hi Gipper,

What you say is true, but - again - irrelevant if we are talking of the 4.2 LC. As Matt already said, it is possible to start in second (High or Low). It may be interesting in the ice, but I never used it. The thing is that with an auto the power delivery is so smoth that the need to start in a specific gear doesnt exist. For instance, I dont see a situation where I'd need to start in third in my auto... In fact I never drove in third low! As mentioned before, I can only use low range in the Toyo in (great) slopes or when crossing obstacles slowly.

__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/