Hello all. I've been reading all the posts on Toyotas and land rovers etc, and began wondering is there is any vehicle available in America that is fit for a long range, possibly round the world trip. Yes we have Discos and Landys here, but I'm looking to do it on a tight budget. I've looked at older land cruisers like fj-40's, 45's(very rare here), and 60's. Would the fj-60's be fit for such a trip? It seems to me the main problem with an american made vehicle would be parts availability. Jeep Cherokee xj's are considered to be excellent 4x4's here, but I suspect they are only available in the states, and Western Europe. Does anyone know if this is the case? Would I be a fool to make an overlander of such a vehicle? And finally there's the Suzuki Samurai. It's tiney, but not that much smaller than an fj-40, and there are plenty of after market improvments for it. It also seems to be available nearly everywhere. If one could look past it's dinky size, would it be a suitable overlander? I was thinking of adding a Military trailer and roof tent. Maybe converting it to a VW diesel for economy and power reasons. Anyway, thanks in advance for humoring me. I hope you all have a great new year.

Wade

[This message has been edited by wildwade (edited 31 December 2004).]

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wade

Well, what can I say; I’m a Jeep guy and love the XJ. I personally have a YJ but I have experience preparing the XJ for Rally Raid and honestly I wouldn’t recommend it for such a trip.

It is an excellent 4x4, capable and really fun but it doesn’t really have a chassis since it’s a unibody. As soon as you load up the car beyond it’s rated capacity (something you’ll definitely do) and hit those rough roads it won’t be long before you start to hear squeaks followed shortly by cracks. Welding a unibody on the road will be very difficult at best. The frame can be stiffened but this is a delicate process that will cost time and money and the end result will never as strong as the conventional ladder frame found in the YJ or the FJ.

The rear axle (either the Dana 35 or Chrysler one) is a weak unit for the stock XJ. It often bends, leaks, spits outer bearings and the clutches of the limited slip needs replacing more often than those of other manufacturers. Load the jeep up and you’ll be pushing it. The axle can be replaced with stiffer unit form people like Currie Enterprises in the US. Again that will cost money but not much time since it’s a bolt on process. The front Dana 30 axle is also on the weak side but its less problematic since its used much less and carries much less load.

These are the two major disadvantages that come to mind at the moment. Any other disadvantages are common with almost all other manufacturers and are dealt with according to your trip and budget, like a suspension upgrade for example.


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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.
Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool.

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A.B.
OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.

Older LR Discoverys and Range Rover Classics are pretty cheap and easy to come by in the US. Either would make a good overlander, if a little short on range with the V8. RR Classics maybe your best bet. You can get a good idea of what is avaliable on www.lrx.com

Cheers

Graham
www.africaoverland.org

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Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

Yeah, I agree with A.B., the XJ, is not the best choice for Overlanding - though it depends on how much you load it up - and how you drive it - you can drive ANYTHING round the world - just depends on how quick you want to go/How much money you've got/how much you enjoy working on your vehicle !!!

Other factors would be engine choice - Diesel is much more preferable for Overlanding RTW - out of USA and Canada fuel prices are considerably more - except around The Middle East states and not many North American Vehicles have good Diesels fitted - unless you buy a 6.0 litre + engine.

The FJ60 is a good vehicle - ive travelled across the Sahara with a guy in a FJ60 and it was pretty good, (straight 6 4.0 litre Normally aspirated Diesel) again though finding a Diesel in North America would be difficult I guess.'
A Toyota is the most 'wise' choice, they are in every continent - and although parts are not the cheapest they dont break so much - maybe Consider buying a vehicle in Europe which is already prepared.
Or just load up a Wrangler (lightly)and to hell with the Gas !!!
Cheers



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Ex Drago Driver, LRE Instructor,
LR 90 300 Tdi Overlander
Suzuki DR650 Overlander
..and Bloody Nice Bloke!

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Having wheeled in, around, and over North America in one for years, might I suggest an Isuzu Trooper??

Widely available in North and South America (and around the world), tough, capable, cheap, simple to fix, spacious, reliable, and very popular with those who actually travel off paved roads.

Please don't take my word for it (as no one here will I'm sure):

http://www.planetisuzu.com/
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/postli...t=&Board=UBB68
http://www.itog.com/
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_I...oper_1989.html

No offence intended, but Jeeps are notoriously weak in critical areas and require considerable upgrading to be reliable and capable off road. The inline 6 is a great engine, and the 4WD system is decent, but there are far more capable, tough, and less expensive vehicles out there.

Compare: Troopers came stock with, among other things, 4 wheel disk brakes, front and rear differential breather hoses, limited slip rear diffs, heavy duty skid plates, exhaust and intake systems designed for deep water, low range gearing, manual hubs, high-mounted electrics, insulated fuse boxes, front/rear tow hooks, and approach/departure and ramp-break over angles that would make a Defender driver think twice.

Not a lot of other 4WD's can claim the same, and when you consider you can pick up a good used Trooper for about $2-3000 US, it would make sense to consider one...

BH

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Gordon Hilton
http://www.greenlaner.net

What about a Hi-lux. They must be around in the US, and about everywhere else in the world.

Rob

Hi, if you rummage around on the web you'll find that you can go RTW in just about any car that's attained a "classic" status.
Many contributors will insist that you have 4wd because the fun they have is in going out and getting stuck deliberately! I do too, it can be fun.
Having 4wd is more reassuring than useful on really long distances, In 30000km around West Africa last year I only used 4wd once, for about 3km in the Banc d'Arguin in Mauritania. I have a 5 tonne part time 4wd motorhome , the guide knew where to go to avoid getting stuck.
It is bearing that in mind, and the other people we came across in out trip (Renault 4, Ford Transit, VW LT35) that I humbly suggest the rear engined Volkswagen bus (I think you call them a "Vanagon" in the US) It is robust, has the ground clearance, is reliable and has easy access for maintenance. You can also sleep inside, very handy for when you need to park up in a city waiting for an embassy to issue visas (you seem to do quite a bit of that on a LONG trip).
It might be worth putting in the turbo diesel once you get to europe/Africa, but the aircooled boxer is so well proven and esay to fix (as long as you throw away the US spec cat and fuel injection and put in a good old pair of carbs)
For the desert parts of your trip, buy some planks and don't be afraid to let the tyres down. Most dune buggys are based on the rear engined VW format, that's got to say something.
I miss the one I had, but growing families oblige...
Happy trails
Luke

Greenlaner what year troopers in your opinion are the best

Robbert mentioned the Hilux - the equvilent in North America is referred to as a Toyota Pickup,- basically a 2 door (or extended cab) 4Runner (Hilux Surf in Europe) with an open back.

The 4Runner is probably a better bet as its enclosed for security - much cheaper than a TLC and lots of spares around still - engines are generally V6 3.0 litre in NA but you can find 4cylinder petrol too if you look and occasioally an imported diesel - which would be the best choice.
Grif

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Ex RAF Regt, Ex Dragoman, LRE Instructor,
LR 90 300 Tdi Overlander
Suzuki DR650 Overlander
..and Bloody Nice Bloke!

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

" ...ive travelled across the Sahara with a guy in a FJ60 ... (straight 6 4.0 litre Normally aspirated Diesel)

Actually Gipper you are talking about the HJ60 common in Europe. An 'FJ' is a carb petrol six - often used in Africa and Arabia by locals who are getting their fuel bills paid (similar economy to RR V8).

They're common in the US too - they never got the HJs (tho' I think Canada did).

As long as you're keeping away from Europe, an FJ, like you say is a wise choice. I bet you can pick one up in the US for a few thousand dollars - rust and old suspension is all you have to look at. The FJ engine is found all RTW.

Chris S



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Author of Sahara Overland II hardback edition and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, among other things

http://www.sahara-overland.com and http://www.adventure-motorcycling.com

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Thanks for the correction Chris,

Ive been looking for a 4Runner/Hj 60/80/100 in Canada for a while for a North/South America trip, to replace my girlfriends old 4.0 Cherokee Gas Guzzler( Its for her honest....!), but never found any Diesels.
In fact trying to find any decent medium capacity diesel 4x4 in Canada is difficult - they are all 6.6 litre+ engines which still only do about 20mpg - however id like to shoehorn one in a 110 with an autobox and strenghtened running gear....

I'll probably just end up shipping my 90 over at great expense...
Cheers
Grif

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Ex RAF Regt, Ex Dragoman, LRE Instructor,
LR 90 300 Tdi Overlander
Suzuki DR650 Overlander
..and Bloody Nice Bloke!

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Gipper look at http://www.kktrading-aurora.com/stock_list.htm and http://www.outbackimports.ca/news.html

Thanks for the links Ive talked to thes guys before... however they are all RHD - and they are pretty expensive !!!
I might do better trying import a European spec LHD/KM clock vehicle of the right age myself.
Cheers
Grif

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

John:

I prefer the pre-92 (1st Generation) Troopers because they're simpler to work on, more numerous, much less expensive, and, perhaps, a little more rugged. I also like the 2.6 Isuzu 4cyl: a torquey little engine.

In North America, the GM 2.8 V6, while underpowered, is a decent choice; reliable, widely available, and parts are cheap.

(Of coures I prefer my current 2.8 Tubro diesel...)

The 2nd generation Troopers are fantastic off-road also, but they added many things I'm not particularily fond of in a 4WD: ABS, Borg-Warner Torque on Demand, power everything. But they also came with sweet Isuzu V6 engines as well...and lots of other nifty things.

Cheers,

BH

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Gordon Hilton
http://www.greenlaner.net

A Cheaper alternative to Toyotas, Land Rovers and Isuzu's etc etc - and an option ive been thinking of as a new vehicle for the girlfriend in Canada to do North/South America....
Would be to buy an older Chevy Silverado Diesel 4x4 Extended/ Crewcab, buy some sensible spares for it:
Main leaf springs
Water pump
Fuel pump
Starter motor
Alternator
Gaskets
Injector overhaul kit
Wheel Bearings
Electrical Spares
Spare hoses
Plenty of Service items.
Talk with a few Chevvy workshops, find out what breaks and either uprate it or carry a spare.
If you want a roof tent set up just use a work frame over the rear load bed - they are readily available and strong, and use a Maggiolina or Overcamp. Use a decent locking waterproof bed cover - the ones on gas struts are great and secure and dont leak, pack your heavy spares out of the way up at the bulkhead and secure them.
Section off the rest with ply so your camping gear water/fuel cans fits in tightly and are strapped down.
A nice set of BFG tyres and off you go.
Its The cheapest option I can think of and the money you save on a vehicle you can spend on a roof tent, spares and a bit more diesel.
Yes I know - it doesnt have a good ramp over angle, but unless you are doing Dunes or severe trails you dont really need it - there is always an alternate route and or local guides who know heavy truck routes.
Also youll have a comfy ride, A/C, cruise etc etc....

Remember:- there are enough good bush mechanics in the world the fix most things that break, for anything that is F****d theres an email/phone/fax home and Fedex.....its a small world.
Cheers
Grif

------------------
Ex RAF Regt, Ex Dragoman, LRE Instructor,
LR 90 300 Tdi Overlander
Suzuki DR650 Overlander
..and Bloody Nice Bloke!

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca