Has anyone got any experiance of upgrading a Land Rovers suspension suspension to enable it to carry an expedition load? I have noticed that a lot seem to increase the height of the body, not a good idea in my view. Should I stick with OE or go for an OMEmu kit. Any views or ideas welcome..... Regards

I personally, being a purist and having read horror stories about non OE suspension would stick to OE, but go for the heavier load options.

I changed my 110 front to heavy duty, i.e. slightly taller springs with a higher load rating, works much better. For a 90 I would go for the high load rear springs at the rear, and maybe try the heavier duty fronts.

You'll get more ground clearance and less wallowing, albeit probably a firmer ride when empty.

Shocks I think I am right in saying remain standard.

Andrew.

Andrew,

You will probably not get many nods for your views regarding the quality of OME suspension. If the horror stories were so widespread, OME would not be one of the most popular setups across Australia (and America, but for different reasons).

Standard shocks are just that - standard considering the conditions these vehicles are built for: farm and commercial use. Hammering the shocks for days on end under very heavy load was not part of the designer's brief. BTW, would you trust a shock that cost a fiver a piece at Far East wholesale prices?

Aaron,

A lot seem to increase the height of the body not just to sit higher, but a) to enable fitting larger tyres and/or b) to enable standard ride height when the springs are compressed under heavy load.


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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

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Roman (UK)

Roman,

I'm not so sure about the expensive is better for expedition usage shocks.

There's at least three travelers I met of which I remember what shocks they had. I remember, because their shocks where expensive, leeking, Old Man EMU.

They probably have good waranty, but that's of not much use in Ghana, let alone somwhere in Congo.

For myself, I don't think I'll ever go back to gasshocks for expidtion use.

Rob

Rob,

Without going further into this argument, can we agree that:

* cheap = disposable
* standard = replaceable
* expensive = rebuildable

OME is not expensive compared to the high end products. I'm not defending OME (I happended to break one shock without any apparent reason), just believe they give a better mileage than standard oil filled shocks.

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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

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Roman (UK)

I was not specifically referring to OME as being unable to cope... I lump all non OE shocks / springs together. In my humble expereience LR's own suspension in good condition performed perfectly during weeks of rampaging with 3/4 ton load up to 50 deg C all over Algeria, and twice in less demanding conditions in Morocco. Not a trace of a problem, from anything on the 110.

More expensive does not necessarily mean better. Manufacturers want to sell products, and a lot of 4x4ers believe the grapevine talk that you have to 'upgrade' anything on a LR so it can cope.

Using gas shocks will transfer shock loads to some other part of the vehicle, like shock mounts or chassis. For that reason alone I would not touch OME or any other 'improvement'. Gas shocks should be reserved for fast road handling, not for off road use.

OME and similar may well be popular, so is McDonalds...

Andrew.



[This message has been edited by Andrew Baker (edited 18 February 2005).]

Having raced off-road (Baja 1000 et al) for a number of years, I can certainly say that gas shocks and even the newer air shocks work very, very well off-road. Companies like Bilstein, FOX and Sway-a-way incorporate some amazing technology into their shocks. I don't think that exchanging oil for gas shocks by itself will add any loads or stress to your car. So long as you aren't changing the design of the suspension or how it works.

For expedition use, the standard LR suspension with uprated OE springs and even standard shocks will work. If you want a little more comfort, and a little more clearance for larger tires, there are many aftermarket options. I've used OME springs with FOX shocks to great effect. I had also heard from a number of people about OME shocks failing, but have not heard anything about their springs failing. My 110 has a Safari Gard JEK II kit on it, and while the suspension works well (when it works) I would not recommend it out of the box. Safari Gard failed to inform me about a few additional items that I needed to allow the suspension to work properly.

I think bottom line is, standard will work. If you want to go aftermarket, make sure you get a system that has been tested and proven for expedition use. And not just 'proven' by the manufacturer either. Get first hand accounts. Like I said, if you are interested in the SG kit, I'll happily let you know what you need (and how much extra it will cost you! :-) )

cheers

Graham
www.africaoverland.org

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Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

Baja 1000 is about lightly laden vehicles on a one off trip, with full access to creature comforts and technical backup and is not a fair comparison. Saharan travel, that is, in the interior of the Sahara, and not around the periphery, is about heavily loaded vehicles is very remote environments where vehicle reliability, not 'comfort' is paramount.

You don't need to be a member of mensa to realize that with heavy loads quick reacting gas (usually gas and oil) shocks will cope with only so much absorption of energy, i.e. it is a high stress design working within tight tolerances - if the design is not correct, e.g. the design is by someone making a general range of components without having carried out vehicle specific testing, the balance of energy will be transferred to the vehicle chassis, or suspension mountings, or the spring or shock absorbers themselves may fail..sounds familiar?? LR OE suspension uses simple long travel oil shocks that don't have to work so hard (but are less comfortable than gas shocks) and springs that don't break, i.e. they have been tested on specific vehicles.

Why spend money to make things worse?

Andrew.

i use OME springs on my (heavily laden) 90 and have had no problems at all. i've also used OME on my last 3 defenders (90 and 110), i only off road in the UK (at the moment) but they work fine.

for my current 90, which has a full external rollcage and all the off road junk you usually carry (winch, nudgebar, tools, ground anchor, tools, jerrycans etc) it weighs in at about 2400kgs, so i've fitted OME 763 springs at the front and OME 762's at the rear, which are listed as HD and VHD! the ride is excellent, not bouncy or "knock your fillings out" and the axle travel stays as good as ever.

Andrew,

I admit not being a member of Mensa while you seem to have a thorough knowledge of the subject and lots of experience to back it up, so please tell us more: how Landrover shock design prevents heat buildup and excels in heat dissipation, how quickly the shocks regain damping qualities when cooled, maybe something about lack of aeration, world class multi-stage valving, and finally how "Using gas shocks will transfer shock loads to some other part of the vehicle" while using landrover shock will not?


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Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

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Roman (UK)

I'm sorry I just can't help myself...
Unless the shock has some serious cooling fins or a separate oil reservoir (look under the wings of a Dakar competitor) it's going to get just as hot as the OE version.

When a shock starts working hard the oil heats up and cavitation takes place on the downstream side of the damper orifice pack. If you keep it up the oil will boil and the shock will burst.
In the long term the cavitation erodes the orifice through which the oil must pass and the damping is reduced.

To avoid this you have to increase the pressure of the oil; a "gas" shock is actually an oil shock absorber with a reservoir of gas at as much as 200 bar behind a little piston pushing onto the oil.
This enormous pressure closes the cavitation before it occurs and increases the boiling point of the oil. And if you still manage to boil the oil the pressure reservoir can sometimes take the strain.
All that to say that at equal valving a flashy gas and an OE shock will behave the same at low speeds.

After that it depends on the driver, a driver that feels the need to put on aftermarket shocks because he has had a bad time with OE units is already transmitting more load to the chassis through his driving style. If he then puts on "gas" shocks that have the same damping rates they will last longer.
As a general rule the higher the damping rate the more impact load is transmitted to the chassis during the compression phase. Also the quicker the shock heats up, gas units can afford to have higher rates for the reasons mentioned.

For fairly obvious reasons a heavier load needs a higher damping rate but a heavier load is harder on the chassis...
The OE LR stuff is designed for the average farm track with a bail of straw and a pig in the back. If you drive like farmer Brown, you'll go all around the world on OE kit with only the 'normal LR problems'

Horses for courses.
Hope this helps.
Luke
1992 Fiat Uno
Too many years as an Automotive design engineer.
and a nice mountainbike.

Yup, what Luke said.

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Michael & Sandy
http://www.expeditionoverland.com

You might do worse than fit a couple of airbags into the rear springs, Aaron. Dead simple, cheap, (about £80 for the pair) and you can adjust the pressure to suit the load and road conditions. (I let all the air out when I want full suspension travel at crawling speeds).

The usual caveats about overloading etc. still apply, obviously.

Dingocroft (among others) sell them, and will post them to you.

HTH,

Michael...

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Michael & Sandy
http://www.expeditionoverland.com

Yep, I did the airbag thing and was extremely satisfied with them.

Luke,

I don't understand how the piston pushing the oil increases the boiling point of the oil (I do believe you though).

congratulation to you and Silvia btw (couldn't retrieve your mail to send these off line)

Did you get rid of the Iveco? Will be rough with three rocking over moroccan roads in that little fiat.

Cu,

Rob

Roman,

You're probably right.
In the LR case, OE is cheap. And replaceable means available rather than affordable to replace.

Also, I think that functionality of the OE shocks for expedition use is at about the same level as most gas shocks.
Taking into account that you'll have a pair of OE shocks at half the price of the cheaper gas shocks (Monroe etc), and that the cheaper gas shocks are about half the price of the OME shocks I don't see the point in fitting OME shocks to 'prepare' your car.

All the expensive stuff probably have their usages, but IMHO for normal people preparing for a ‘normal’ expedition, HD OE springs and shocks are a pretty good set-up, and hard to beat when looking at value for money.