Announcements

**blurg** · #1 25 Feb 2014

Hallo!

I'm interested in buy a new overlander vehicle, as my W123 is becoming too small due to family extension

I often travel in other continents, plans are to go to Africa again, North America, South-America and so on.

I'm looking for a new one, for overland travels.

I am thinking about the perfect setup, and I got two possible contestants.
It will

a) T1 (309d, 310d)

b) Sprinter (312d, 313/316CDI)

I will go off-road, travel over bumpy stoney roads and travel through dust and and pour in poor diesel once in a while.

It must be very durable and capable. I need to trust it very well and if it breaks, some bush mechanic from a distant village should be able to help me, without a computer.

So I would like to know, how is the Sprinter in general and more specificly, the engine.
Are those engines, the OM602 and the OM611/612 as good as the OM617 for these kind of trips?

Pross/cons

309d/310d:

- goold old OM617 engine
- had to find 4x4 versions
- bad MPG

312d of 316CDI (2000-2006, not newer)

- more choice in 4x4 examples
- more choice and better examples with low mileage
- better MPG

Jurgen

**Surfy** · #2 25 Feb 2014

There are no many 4x4 and 3xx arround, when i look at in Switzerland at sample.

AutoScout24

I like the look of the 310 much more than the newer ones.

Your old "project" was really really cool, was on your blog severall times over the years!

Surfy

**moggy 1968** · #3 25 Feb 2014

any new vehicle will cause major problems with fuel outside europe. euro5 was bad enough, euro 6 makes it pretty much impossible unless someone else knows of a way of making it work, but the professional overland truck builders I have talked to can't

**Surfy** · #4 25 Feb 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

any new vehicle will cause major problems with fuel outside europe. euro5 was bad enough, euro 6 makes it pretty much impossible unless someone else knows of a way of making it work, but the professional overland truck builders I have talked to can't

These overland truck builders have mostly no experience with newer models and Euro4 upwards. Because not many use them.

Here see you some of them get stranded and how they could solve it:

4x4tripping: Using an Euro5 Diesel car for an worldtrip?

The manufacturer usually had to be involved , or an specialist. They do a downgrade to Euro3 or less.

An Overland truck builder usually do other stuff, they have to train about, when more people start to use these newer models. What they do....

My little research shows that mercedes is better there, has experience how to resolve it, while VW users spend their money to clean (and replace from time to time) their DPF. In both cases it is hard to catch a guy even from the manufacturer who has knowledge about.

Surfy

**moggy 1968** · #5 26 Feb 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfy

These overland truck builders have mostly no experience with newer models and Euro4 upwards. Because not many use them.

Here see you some of them get stranded and how they could solve it:

4x4tripping: Using an Euro5 Diesel car for an worldtrip?

The manufacturer usually had to be involved , or an specialist. They do a downgrade to Euro3 or less.

An Overland truck builder usually do other stuff, they have to train about, when more people start to use these newer models. What they do....

My little research shows that mercedes is better there, has experience how to resolve it, while VW users spend their money to clean (and replace from time to time) their DPF. In both cases it is hard to catch a guy even from the manufacturer who has knowledge about.

Surfy

and then it fails the emissions test in your own country!!
In the UK it is illegal to modify your vehicle in such a way as to produce more emissions than the manufacturers standard (either by modification or removal of parts)

**Surfy** · #6 26 Feb 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

and then it fails the emissions test in your own country!!
In the UK it is illegal to modify your vehicle in such a way as to produce more emissions than the manufacturers standard (either by modification or removal of parts)

The EU had stopped these emissions-tests for car with ODB2 Interface (on board diagnostic system) at 2013. Because this diagnostic system would show problems with the emission.

Therefore nobody will know that your vehicle had not the Euro5 Upwards standard anymore. Because there is too no error after the professional downgrade.

Legal? For shure we travelers will enable Euro5 when we are back at home. We all take care for our planet!

Surfy

**RogerM** · #7 25 Feb 2014

I've got a T1 309D, good robust vehicle.

Quite common with a factory diff lock in Germany, not so common with a 4x4 conversion. The diff locked version will go pretty much where a regular 4x4 will go without diff locks - sand will be the only problem.

The non electronic OM engines are good for one million kms if cared for. Easy to fix, everything mechanical, the turbo version can run hot in the tropics, but that extra power is really nice if you are running the vehicle at max gross weight.

Some good conversions (campervan) are available in Germany for the T1, extra high roof, shower, beds for 4 adults, etc.

I lived in a Westfalia James Cook 309D for 9 months, very easy as it was completely self contained.

Rust in wings and sills is a big problem.

Changes I'd make - diesel hot water/air heater, compressor fridge, diesel cooktop and get rid of the autogas tank for the appliances.

Sprinter - the T1N was almost a cosmetic update of the T1, parts will be more readily available. Far more complex engine, battery change requires a computer!!!

**twenty4seven** · #8 1 Mar 2014

To get back to the Topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurg

Hallo!

312d of 316CDI (2000-2006, not newer)

- more choice in 4x4 examples
- more choice and better examples with low mileage
- better MPG

Jurgen

Hello Jurgen

What happened in 2006 with the Sprinter to make you only want up to that year please? I'm half looking for a SWB low roof 2WD as an everyday vehicle and for trips away. I'm only travelling as far in every direction as the Dutch / French campervans, so I guess I can get myself home

I've had a newish LWB Sprinter for the last few weeks now as a works vehicle and love it.

**moggy 1968** · #9 2 Mar 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by twenty4seven

To get back to the Topic

Hello Jurgen

What happened in 2006 with the Sprinter to make you only want up to that year please? I'm half looking for a SWB low roof 2WD as an everyday vehicle and for trips away. I'm only travelling as far in every direction as the Dutch / French campervans, so I guess I can get myself home

I've had a newish LWB Sprinter for the last few weeks now as a works vehicle and love it.

I think probably the introduction of euro 5 engines but just getting. Newer Sprinters rust really badly. The body just blisters up from underneith.

**RussG** · #10 2 Mar 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

I think probably the introduction of euro 5 engines but just getting. Newer Sprinters rust really badly. The body just blisters up from underneith.

I'm not sure of the year but that would be my guess as well. Earlier ones would have had either completely mechanical Bosch injection pumps or pretty basic electronically controlled pumps.

At some point they went to common rail which (allegedly) don't like poor quality fuel.

The unfortunate thing is it's probably by then that they had fixed the paint quality and so they don't rust as badly.

I've thought about one of these as well. Pretty easy to retro fit a locking rear diff I think, therefore avoiding the need to find a rare and expensive 4x4 version, which btw are pretty impressive. We have them at work and they will make a LR110 or 130 look silly off road.

My son has a 2012 one and they are very impressive, fast, refined, economical loads of space.

**twenty4seven** · #11 2 Mar 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussG

My son has a 2012 one and they are very impressive, fast, refined, economical loads of space.

The one I have at the moment is also around 2012, it's my mobile office, the dash board alone could hold half a bag of my travel stuff, it really is very well thought out and you see 300K mile ones for sale on ebay which shows they will do the miles. It's the vehicle of choice for multi drop parcel firms as well.

Second hand, much better value than a VW T5 IMO and more space to boot, just need to find the time to go and buy one and hit the road for a few weeks.