Putting 2 jerry cans on the roof rack isn't going to make a LR or a LC significantly more unstable. Maybe 80 kilos more (including can). Lighter if you use Secptre plastic cans that NATO and the US Army are now using. If you load a full rack of jerry cans on the roof then, yes, you can get unstable. But just about any vehicle can handle 150kg up top with no problems. Just depends what else you got up there. I had a tent, a rack, a jerry of water and a jerry of diesel on the top of a 110. I couldn't corner like an F1 car, but I didn't have any problems in the dunes or in the mountains of SA.

And yes, my jerry cans on top were sitting on the long side. No problems with leaks, except from the water Sceptre can which did develop a small weep along the way. Being water I didn't care much.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Graham
www.africaoverland.org

__________________
Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

If you can avoid fuel (or anything else) on the roof, do. Roof loads are seductive, because each item is so easily manageable,but it mounts up really fast. Even 150kg up there makes a big difference to the centre of gravity.

Driving carefully makes the problem seem to vanish, but an astonishing number of expeditions end in tears when the driver loses control after a sudden swerve.

Incidentally, a 70 series TLC has a narrower track than a Defender, but track is not really the most important factor. Raised and long-travel suspension, poor shock absorbers, and high-profile, low pressure tyres all make roof loads more dangerous.

However, the real problem is simply the physics of the tyres changing direction suddenly, and a few hundred kilos up top deciding not to follow suit...

As Tom Sheppard and others point out time and again, the plan should be for massive loads like fuel and water to be packed low down (and between the axles).

If only it were that simple!

Michael...

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Michael & Sandy
http://www.expeditionoverland.com

for calculations a full jerry of fuel weighs about 20kg. In a landrover you can end up with a moment of high comedy when you find you cant get out as the roof guttering has collapsed, trapping the doors. Use a good roofrack with a minmum of eight contact points (full length on a 110) also windscreen pillars can collapse and winscreens break. My 4 point roofrack on a suzuki sj413 collapsed the guttering after just 15 minutes on the piste!!. (on the PDC, I wouldn't normally drive a suzuki for expedition work!) It was ok on the road but the vehicle was seriously unstable with 3 cans and psp on top (mind you, they wobble a bit anyhow!) apparently when I went round corners you could see daylight under my front wheel as it lifted in the air!

If you are using a roofrack because you have run out of space inside you are carrying too much equipment! If you look at the video on this site of the landy rolling on a dune one of his problems was too much weight up top (the other was not accelerating as he started to slide, so his vehicle went broadside on to the slope)

Andy
landcruiser H60
landrover 101
moggy minor traveller!
www.plymouth-dakar.com

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

moggy,

you are correct on the weight of a 20l jerry. Not sure what I was thinking when I put 80 for 2.

True you may be carrying too much if you have to put jerry cans on top of a 110, but what about a 90? We don't all have huge 6x6 rigs like EO. ;-) I'm helping a couple get a 90 ready for London to Cape Town. Something will end up on the rack. We already know that!

cheers

Graham
www.africaoverland.org

__________________
Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

I don't know how much fuel a 90 can take, but with the 80l tank in my disco I never really needed jerries. They do give some peace of mind and can be handy when a certain region runs out of Diesel (like north of Benin and parts of Nigeria in my case).

There must be enough room left in the 90 for a jerrie of two. Gipper even had a 4 person garden table in it and I don't remember him having jerries on the roof.

Rob

should 'ave got a 110!!
main problem with carrying inside is the smell and the fumes that you never seem able to avoid. extra tanks is the rolls royce option, also means not having to pay extra duty at borders. extra tanks are available even for the 90 which will give you significantly greater range and will carry fuel safely and fume free.

wether you need the extra depends on where you are travelling but I don't think the standard 90 tank is sufficient. Off the top of my head I don't know what the standard capacity is. off road even 80L will only give you a range of about 300 miles, which leaves you very little margin for getting stuck, lost etc. when on pDC in a suzuki with 60L of fuel in jerries we ran very low on 2 occassions. Once because all the garages in a town had ran out and once because of having to backtrack to find a way through dunes and pulling other cars out. work out how much you think you will need and add at least 50% for margin.
just my humble of course
andy
landcruiser h60
land rover 101 ambie/camper
1968 morris minor traveller!
www.plymouth-dakar.com

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

150kg on the roof is a massive load and will make affect vehicle stability I would suggest!

we all like to think that we are good drivers and while this kind of load may make be fine when everything is ticketyboo what about when things go wrong.
swerving round a person or object that is in the road (elk test anyone? even empty 4x4s fail this one), or what about side slope stability when the ground unexpectedly slips aray from you, or swerving to miss that unlit bullock cart in the road at night. On my last trip my back wheel came off at 70mph on the autobahn. As I did a 360 spin (witnessing an effect like the parting of the red sea behind me) I was mightly glad I put my jerry cans inside (and ratchet strapped them down!) I wasn't so pleased when it came to sleeping in the back though. they stank!!

It is areally tough problem to solve, given unlimited funds extra tanks are the way to go, but we don't all have unlimited funds of course.

What Iam doing for my 101 is fitting a 200litre tank inside. This is completely sealed (no fumes) and fills from an external filler. It is connected to the main tank my a simple pipe and tap. when the time comes to transfer fuel simply take off the filler (to vent the tank) and open the tap. the fuel transfers by gravity, as it is higher than the main tank. It is still low down though and between the chasis rails. it's an adaptation of the system Chris Scott has in his landcruiser.

landcruiser h60
land rover 101 ambie/camper
1968 morris minor traveller!
www.plymouth-dakar.com

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

The couple heading into Africa in the 90 are using a NAS D90 as 110s are very hard (and expensive) to get hold of over here. Converted to diesel, but still with a 15usgal main tank. They are fitting a saddle tank, but want to take at least 1 jerry for peace of mind.

On the instability of swerving and things, there just isn't much you can do in an emergency situation. As moggy said, even unloaded LRs and TLC can roll when changing direction quickly when avoiding something. Gotta say, in a loaded overland vehicle, better to not go fast at all. Ever. Watch the road ahead and try to predict wheat's going on. Obviously surprise is surprise, and if an unloaded LR is going over, then my truck certainly will. (But then I do have a roll cage ;-) ).

Overlanding is all about compromise, and some us draw the lines in different places. I had 200L of diesel on/in my truck under full load. Rarely had all jerrys full. Usually strapped to the roof empty, but they are there if I need them.

cheers

graham
www.africaoverland.org

__________________
Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland