 |
30 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 16
|
|
|
ETIAS visa/Schengen Area
I will admit it.
I'm stumped.
And I'm looking for advice/opinions/observations/points that I might have missed.
I'm in the planning stages of my first Post-Retirement trip - one summer in Europe.
( 1 May until 1 October - possibly as early as 2020, more likely in 2021)
The part that baffles me is how to deal with the 90-day restriction on ETIAS visa / Schengen Area
ETIAS visa / Schengen Area countries are:
Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.
I'm planning on:
Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark,
Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, Ireland, France
So....any advice/opinions/observations/points that I might have missed ?
Getting an extension on a ETIAS/Schengen visa doesn't appear to be do-able (without claiming asylum, etc.)
Your thoughts?
|
30 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
|
|
|
You can flip between Schengen and non-Schengen countries and extend your trip almost indefinitely, an American friend of mine did this a couple of years ago and spent nearly a year in Europe.
I am not sure how long you have to be out of the region before you can re-enter but as long as you have a return ticket and can explain why you want to re-enter I was told that the immigration officials were fairly flexible.
|
30 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nomad
Posts: 22
|
|
|
I spent last summer in Europe. Faced the same 90-day Schengen area restriction. Stretched beyond that timeframe by spending time in non-Schengen countries. It’s a bummer but something that needs to get factored into your planning. You could consider getting an extension in certain countries for coursework such as a language course in France.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
30 May 2019
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 1,111
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark manley
You can flip between Schengen and non-Schengen countries and extend your trip almost indefinitely, an American friend of mine did this a couple of years ago and spent nearly a year in Europe.
I am not sure how long you have to be out of the region before you can re-enter but as long as you have a return ticket and can explain why you want to re-enter I was told that the immigration officials were fairly flexible.
|
Specifically:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/
"How many times can I enter the EU with an ETIAS?
You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 days period."
So yes, getting out of Schengen (meaning: into the UK/Romania/Bulgaria/Croatia) does suspend your 90-day counter, but it does not reset it. If you want to spend a year in Europe, you will need to spend 90 out of each 180 days outside Schengen.
Now, since OP wants to be in Europe from May to the start of October, that's 5 months - he will need to spend a cumulative ~2 months outside of the Schengen zone. Fortunately, countries outside the Schengen zone include some really good moto travel destinations - everything between Greece and Slovenia/Hungary, Morocco, Scotland...
How much border guards will care to enforce the 90-days-out-of-180 clause is an open question. Entirely possible that they won't care, especially with a US passport holder. But don't bet your entire agenda on it.
|
30 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 16
|
|
|
That's....pretty much what I figured.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see three options here (in no specific order):
1. Adjust my route(s) to accommodate ETIAS/Schengen limitations - THEN the other countries
1a. Adjust the other way - other countries first then ETIAS/Schengen
2. Attempt to keep "under the radar" for the full five months and - at worst - claim ignorance.
3. Make two trips to Europe
Sigh.
I understand (and somewhat agree with) what the lawmakers are trying to accomplish.
People all over the world - in almost every country - are overstaying Tourist & Student visas.
I understand. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
Again - Thanks !
|
30 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NSW Australia - but never there
Posts: 1,235
|
|
|
My experience over the last 10 years of motorhoming in Europe for 3 to 6 months most years is that they are getting stricter about overstay every year. Computer systems are linked across the whole Schengen zone and they keep track of where you are up to with the 90/180 count.
Plenty of options for leaving the zone, but need to consider whether part days at the beginning and end are counted as full days and not to use up the whole 90 days befire going to say Morocco for 90 days because it is hard to be out of Schengen for 90 days using a 90 day stay in Morocco. UK and Republic of Ireland are useful because neither are in Schengen and you can stay for 9 months of more between the two.
Some countries - Oz and NZ have grandfathered special arrangements with several countries that override Schengen and can get you an extra few months if you can play the system
|
31 May 2019
|
|
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 16
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony LEE
My experience over the last 10 years of motorhoming in Europe for 3 to 6 months most years is that they are getting stricter about overstay every year. Computer systems are linked across the whole Schengen zone and they keep track of where you are up to with the 90/180 count.
Plenty of options for leaving the zone, but need to consider whether part days at the beginning and end are counted as full days and not to use up the whole 90 days befire going to say Morocco for 90 days because it is hard to be out of Schengen for 90 days using a 90 day stay in Morocco. UK and Republic of Ireland are useful because neither are in Schengen and you can stay for 9 months of more between the two.
Some countries - Oz and NZ have grandfathered special arrangements with several countries that override Schengen and can get you an extra few months if you can play the system
|
I may (stress MAY here) have overthought this.
According to the official Websites for each of the countries that I listed above (the ones I plan to visit) a Schengen Visa is NOT required.....
Apparently, nor is a country-specific Visa (Ukraine, Hungary, etc.)
ALL of them list (as of today) NO Visa requirement for Tourists with valid US Passport holders, with stays (generally) ranging from 90 to 180 days.
A little less than half of them require me to show "sufficient funds" and a return airplane ticket. (Poland, Latvia, Netherlands, etc.)
So.....I may have overthought this.
What d'you think?
|
1 Jun 2019
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 1,111
|
|
You have literally misunderstood what Schengen is. 
As a US passport holder, once you get an ETIAS, you have a 90-day right of stay in *the entire Schengen area*. You don't need separate visas for Schengen countries any more than a European coming to the US on an ESTA would need a separate visa for Virginia and a separate visa for Georgia.
From the point when you first enter a Schengen country with your US passport (visa-free, just with the ETIAS done online), you can spend a cumulative 90 days inside all Schengen countries together, within the next 180 days. So a cumulative 90 days out of those 180 would have to be spent outside Schengen - in the Balkans, in the UK and Ireland, in Morocco, in Ukraine, etc. You can cross in and out of Schengen as you please during these 180 days. What counts is the combined number of days you've been within Schengen.
Quote:
|
Apparently, nor is a country-specific Visa (Ukraine, Hungary, etc.)
|
Hungary is inside Schengen. (Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia aren't, even though they're in the EU.) Ukraine is outside Schengen and has a separate visa-waiver scheme for US passport holders, I believe.
|
6 Jun 2019
|
|
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 106
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnTyx
Specifically:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/
"How many times can I enter the EU with an ETIAS?
You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 days period."
So yes, getting out of Schengen (meaning: into the UK/Romania/Bulgaria/Croatia) does suspend your 90-day counter, but it does not reset it. If you want to spend a year in Europe, you will need to spend 90 out of each 180 days outside Schengen.
Now, since OP wants to be in Europe from May to the start of October, that's 5 months - he will need to spend a cumulative ~2 months outside of the Schengen zone. Fortunately, countries outside the Schengen zone include some really good moto travel destinations - everything between Greece and Slovenia/Hungary, Morocco, Scotland...
How much border guards will care to enforce the 90-days-out-of-180 clause is an open question. Entirely possible that they won't care, especially with a US passport holder. But don't bet your entire agenda on it. |
Correct, but they do care. So keep track, as the penalty can be a 5 year suspension the area again.
FYI, Morocco is beautiful and also out of the inclusion zone.
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
__________________
Greg "WANDRR" Turp
2WANDRRs.com
|
6 Jun 2019
|
|
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 106
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnTyx
You have literally misunderstood what Schengen is.
As a US passport holder, once you get an ETIAS, you have a 90-day right of stay in *the entire Schengen area*. You don't need separate visas for Schengen countries any more than a European coming to the US on an ESTA would need a separate visa for Virginia and a separate visa for Georgia.
From the point when you first enter a Schengen country with your US passport (visa-free, just with the ETIAS done online), you can spend a cumulative 90 days inside all Schengen countries together, within the next 180 days. So a cumulative 90 days out of those 180 would have to be spent outside Schengen - in the Balkans, in the UK and Ireland, in Morocco, in Ukraine, etc. You can cross in and out of Schengen as you please during these 180 days. What counts is the combined number of days you've been within Schengen.
Hungary is inside Schengen. (Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia aren't, even though they're in the EU.) Ukraine is outside Schengen and has a separate visa-waiver scheme for US passport holders, I believe. |
I entered Ukraine by bike on passport alone. Green card also valid there.
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
__________________
Greg "WANDRR" Turp
2WANDRRs.com
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
