I live in San Francisco. After these past couple years, I feel an overwhelming need to get out, meet people, see things, and remind myself why I'm alive.

My office is work-from-home until (at least) late October. I'd like to spend that time riding around Italy - maybe through the Dolomiti, the Swiss/Italian Alps, down the Amalfi Coast, etc.

I've been investigating this for a few days, but the logistics are complicated. Here's what I've learned so far. I would love your advice!

Timing

I'd like to leave soon to maximize my time on-the-road. I'm thinking of arriving mid-next week.

Experience

I've had a Vespa GTS 300 and a California M1 license (unrestricted - same as a class A in Europe) for two years. In that time, I've ridden 30,000 KM, including a 3000 KM/12 night tour from SF to Crater Lake and back.

Acquiring a moto

I really like my Vespa: it's got a reasonable top speed (130kph), ABS and traction control, and some built-in storage. It's also what I'm comfortable riding: it's automatic and maneuverable. I have a strong preference to ride one in Italy.

Rental options

Most places that rent Vespas cater to amateurs on day trips. The going rate seems to be about €60 per night, without much discount for longer trips. This quickly adds up to thousands of EUR for something that probably has a small engine and might not be in-shape for a long trip.

Monthly rentals (Cooltra/OnMovo)

There are a couple of places that also rent by the month. Both have low monthly caps (~2000KM) and no clear way to buy more. (Even if I could, paying-per-KM adds up quickly.) OnMovo does carry the GTS, but is out of stock until late September. Cooltra only has the SYM Joymax. These are appx. €500 per month for 2000km.

Shipping options

I haven't requested any quotes yet, but shipping my Vespa is an option.

Big pluses for familiarity, novelty (how cool would it be to see my own Vespa in photos overseas?!), and not having to ask a friend to babysit it while I'm away. As the original owner, I also know that it's been maintained well, and would be happy to continue investing in maintenance abroad. I also know it has all the safety features.

The risks are pretty clear: if anything happens to it, it's my bike that gets damaged. There's also the logistical headaches (maybe being without it in the days before/after the trip, and figuring out how to get it crated and to the airport). I haven't requested any quotes yet, but this is only even an option considering how expensive rentals seem to be.

I'd also need to contact my insurer (State Farm) to see how my policy applies abroad.

Purchase options

Considering the more obvious choices seem ridiculously pricey, I'm also wondering if purchasing is the way to go. As many here know, buying a motorcycle as a foreigner seems particularly challenging.

Use a friend

I have friends in Como. Perhaps I could convince one of them to buy it for me, and they'd either get a great deal on a Vespa, or we'd sell it after and work out a deal.

I am nervous about hassling a friend, especially since I don't know what this entails, and what the risks would be.

• What are the costs beyond the purchase price (for instance, the bollo tax, registration, etc.)?
• Are there other fees to consider? The friend I floated this by was afraid there might be, for instance, year end effects on his property tax that would be hard to account for.
• How does smogging work? It seems vehicles <4 years old don't need to be smogged. If a vehicle is more than 4 years old, does the last owner's revisione count, or do I need to do a new one as the new owner?
• What about insurance? If I have a wreck or a theft on my friend's insurance, will that impact his future premiums?

Rent from a private seller

An alternative would be to find a private seller on FB or Subito, and convince them to rent me the moto they are selling. Could be an appealing offer for them: "I'll pay you €___ to borrow this for 2 months, and then you can sell it for close to what you're already selling it for."

It has similar open questions to buying with a friend, plus the additional risk of dealing with a stranger: one of us will be risking thousands of € in trust on the other. What happens if one of us screws up?

Local lease

There are shops that rent al mese, but they have 18 month contracts and require a codice fiscale. I think these are equivalent to a US lease, and unlikely to work for a foreigner. They also have KM limits.

French purchase-repurchase

It seems the French have a loophole that allows tourists to temporarily own a vehicle, but I couldn't find any information for Piaggio or Nice.

Buying it myself

My GTS is nearly identical to the current model, so I have no need for a new one, but given the lack of a great alternative, it's also worth considering.

Italy and the neighboring countries all seem to restrict vehicle ownership to residents, unless you export the vehicle outside the EU.

Fly-n-buy

I know people have bought cars directly from the European manufacturer, and ridden them locally. I haven't found any evidence that Piaggio has a similar program, but I need to call to confirm.

Get EE Plates

I have seen rumors online of EE plates, Italy's temporary tag for vehicles to-be-exported. If I can find more information, maybe I could purchase one locally, ride it, and then ship it back to California.

It would save me 1/2 the hassle of shipping my Vespa, traded for the hassle of selling one of them upon my return, and for making whatever modifications I need to pass customs (e.g. adding reflectors). I'd also have to worry about break-in and having the 1000km service done.

Between the shipping, depreciation, and DOT modifications, I doubt this is cost effective.

German export plates

There's more written online about the German export plates. I could ride back from there. Same downsides as EE plates, plus German prices seem higher.

Other concerns

San Francisco just reinstated its mask mandate due to anxiety about the Delta variant of coronavirus. My Italian friends suspect that Italy will keep minimal restrictions through the high tourist season of August, but lockdown could be reinstated in September.

On one hand, maybe having a motorcycle would make it easier to get from a more restricted place to a less restricted one. But if the whole country shuts down, I need an escape route. Having to get a motorcycle back to a particular rental shop, to a particular friend to sell, or to a particular exporter adds a layer of complexity (which may be unavoidable if I insist on taking this trip on 2 wheels).

…I wonder if I could buy a used Vespa in Germany, get export plates, and easily sell it in Italy.

I also wonder if there are closer countries with export plates, e.g. Switzerland.

If I'm reading this right, a vehicle with more than 6000km is considered used in Europe.

Does that mean I can buy a brand new Vespa in Germany with export plates (skipping VAT), ride it for 6000km, and then sell it to someone in Italy who won't have to pay VAT because it's now used?

Your best bet is to write to a major retailer of (used) Vespas in Italy and describe the situation. Buy the bike from them with a repurchase agreement. Have them help with paperwork. Lose some money compared to a private deal, save a lot of headache.

At first the EU garantees a free movements of goods for EU citizens. As you are a foreigner or non EU citizen you have to have find out what rules are valid for you because you will act like a classical export/importer when you buy in one country and sell in another.

You cannot skip the VAT if you buy and sell in the EU. To skip VAT you have to export to a non EU country!

If you buy as a private person a new vehicle in EU country A and you sell it with as a used vehicle to a private person in EU counry B, the buyer hasn`t to pay any VAT.

VAT has only to be paid if it is a new vehicle. Every kind of vehicle under 6000km on the clock and with a date of registration younger than 6 months will be seen as a new vehicle!

But if you sell the new vespa bought in Germany in Italy after 6 months of use with more than 6000km and older than 6 months to a dealer or a private person than only local (italian) taxes and fees must be paid. Also you have to inform the customs in Germany and in Italy if the value of the vehicle is higher than 1000€!

My advice:
- accept only cash if you sell because it is a private deal!
- never send out any digital copies or photos of vehicle documents to anyone
- a copy of the buyers passport or ID must be part of a written sale and purchase agreement
- sale and purchase agreement must contain all data of the buyer including contact data and date/time of handover
- sale and purchase agreement must exclude all warranties for defects. You sell as "sold as seen and proofed by the buyer under excluding all warranties"

__________________

Thanks for your replies!

I wrote a dealer last night at your suggestion. The quote I got back was 2640EUR for only 2600km. Plus, they are closed for the rest of August.

It also seems I misread that EU VAT page in my late night sleepiness, missing the crucial AND in "6 months AND 6000km" for a vehicle to be considered used.

I'll keep looking. It's seeming like renting might be the most reasonable option (even though the cost is insane), but even finding one with unlimited miles is surprisingly challenging.

This is the month where whole Italy is going on vacation. Many tourists of France and Germany will also be there. Means Italy will be from Liguira and Emilia-Romagna on to south overcrowed!

Available campgrounds, hotels, restaurants and beaches will be full of people and due to corona rules these cannot offer same capacities as usual.

Keep that in mind while your are planning!

__________________

There is plenty of vespa's in Italy, and why would Giuseppe be interested to import the vespa to Italy if he has choice to buy them locally?

So logical answer is no.

Switzerland is outside EU (customs).

BR
Dooby

I don't find it very surprising that it is hard to find one with unlimited mileage--let's face it, most people rent Vespas to bop around town for a day, week, or month rather than go on long-distance journeys. Perhaps you could find a place that would at least agree to use your average mileage over the rental period than strictly per month (ie, so that if you basically stayed in one place for a month, your "mileage" for the next month could be almost double.

Also, have you considered a small motorcycle? If you plan to ride long distances this might be better.

Answer is no.

It's a good point. I guess I'd figured that since a rental could cost a couple thousand Euro, I could sell the one I rode at enough of a discount that someone would want it. It seems Italy is a particularly difficult country to buy a vehicle in (even for locals).

Considering that all of my riding experience is with hand brakes and a CVT, it makes sense to find a similar vehicle overseas. Getting accustomed to shifting and using a foot brake might be a lot when also learning new traffic customs.

At the risk of being struck by lightning , how did you come up with conclusion that in Italy it is particularly difficult to buy a vehicle even for locals?

My view (correct me if I am wrong please) is that you are floating with your ideas and do not want to put them on a paper and provide calculations that will bring you to the solution or conclusion that you don't have a solution.

BR
Dooby

My quick perusal suggests that you're asking the same questions we all do when comparing shipping a bike vs. renting vs. buying and re-selling locally. The only difference is that you have a thing for Vespas, but in other respects your answers are probably covered in the many, many threads addressing these issues--see the search box at the top right of this window.

I'll admit I'm a bit puzzled by your reluctance to learn to ride a standard issue bike--manual transmission and foot brake included. It's not difficult, and it opens up many possibilities for future holidays (as well as life itself). I'm also puzzled that you seem put out by a price of €500/month; this strikes me as ridiculously cheap. It would take a lot of excess mileage charges to add up to anything substantial. Even €60/day isn't too bad if it comes reasonably close to getting you what you want. That's what rental bikes cost...except when they're more expensive (or you're in SE Asia).

In any case, I'd suggest weighing the numbers, making a decision, and not looking back. Who cares if you get the best possible deal? You're talking about riding around Italy for a couple of months, and the clock is already ticking.

[Addendum: I just saw that you're planning to begin your "maximize time on the road" trip about a week from now. Hell, make a decision tomorrow at the latest and clear some space in your consciousness for all the other bits and pieces which need attention.]

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

One other thing I don't really get is that it appears that you'll be working during this time, it is not a vacation...so are you sure that 2000 km/month (what you've been quoted for vespas) is unreasonable? Your trip to Crater Lake was 12 days and less than 1300 kilometers, and presumably you weren't working during that trip? I don't know how fast you can travel on a vespa, but presumably you'll be avoiding the highways to it could take you a full day to go a few hundred kilometers. And having spent quite a bit of time in Italy myself, it is not a place where you want to be riding every day...go to a nice new town that you find, stay there for a few days to get your work done, then go another few hundred kilometers. If you plan to spend a week at a time in one place, then the calculus seems pretty easy, especially if you can average your kilometers over the entire rental, rather than per month (as seems likely).

I don't know for sure, but I would expect mileage overage fees to be pretty steep, because the vehicle providers probably intend for their scooters to be used to cruise the piazzas rather than the wear and tear associated with high-mileage usage. That said, 500 euro a month is an absolute bargain, so you're starting in a good place.

I know nobody likes it when a newcomer shows up and asks the obvious questions, so I wanted to demonstrate that I am being thoughtful and have done a bunch of research. (I think I even had that in my post at one point, but I must have lost it in editing.)

I was excited to discover a group of people with experience in this space, and wanted to be open with my thought processes, in case I have missed or misunderstood anything. I discovered this forum, searched around on it, and posted in the same day for that same bias-to-action - to not lose time overthinking. I know it's easy to lose days in research, especially when California's days are Europe's nights. I'm sorry if I posted prematurely.

I've also come to the same conclusion that you have: although it seems insane to spend thousands of dollars to rent something that could be bought new for not much more than that, the hassle of trying to figure this all out when I'm already overdue for a vacation is too much. It's only money after all.

To be clear, my issue with the 500€/month isn't the rate, it's the mileage cap.

If I had room to park a standard motorcycle at home, I'd probably have one too. My preference to travel on a 300cc scooter is largely familiarity - less to worry about, less likely to make a mistake that could become a crash, and less likelihood of getting caught by a speed camera. Plus, the underseat storage is nice. I'm sure I could ride a manual motorcycle, I'd just rather not this trip.