Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > Europe
Europe Topics specific to Western and Eastern Europe, from UK to the Russian border, and south-east to Turkey.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By AnTyx
  • 1 Post By Vaufi
  • 2 Post By Rapax
  • 1 Post By Tomkat
  • 1 Post By mark manley

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
Roundabout rules in Germany

I was wondering if any Germans or others familiar with German motoring rules could clarify what they are regarding roundabouts? Last week I was nearly knocked off my motorcycle on a local roundabout here in the UK by a German motorist who did not slowdown or look before entering the roundabout that I was already on forcing me to brake hard and take avoiding action, I assumed it was because they have different rules and had not bothered to find out what they are in the UK. Yesterday I was following another German motorist onto the same roundabout and they did the same to another motorist, this time a car causing them to do the same, was this just bad driving or not knowing the rules, which is another type of bad driving.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17 Aug 2022
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 1,111
Pretty sure it's because they are used to looking left, not right, when approaching a roundabout. Almost ate asphalt a couple times on a rental bike in NZ like that!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 845
Nearly got caught out like that in Almaty, where the rules (if there are any?) allow drivers to enter the roundabout without giving way. Naturally the entering traffic then blocks the exits so the entire roundabout clogs up. Fortunately, it seemed to be the only roundabout in the city!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17 Aug 2022
Vaufi's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Munich, the beer capital
Posts: 1,060
Mark, I'm sure that guy was so busy concentrating to drive on the correct side of the road that he oversaw the yield sign. In Germany the rules are that the vehicle inside the roundabout has right of way and the vehicle entering has to yield.
Good for you that you survived
__________________
Only when we pause to wonder
do we go beyond the limits of our little lives.
(Rod McKuen)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,134
My understanding is that there is an almost universal rule in Western & Central Europe that vehicles entering the roundabout must give way to vehicles that are already in the roundabout.

There are some rare exceptions to this in France, where a special sign is used to warn drivers that traffic entering the roundabout has right of way. See this writeup about this at the UK RAC website: Lesser-known French road rules you’ll need to follow on your trip.

I'm going to guess that the German driver who cut you off in the UK was probably used to looking in the opposite direction (to the left, rather than to the right) to check and see if there was oncoming traffic already in the roundabout. There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
Nearly got caught out like that in Almaty, where the rules (if there are any?) allow drivers to enter the roundabout without giving way. Naturally the entering traffic then blocks the exits so the entire roundabout clogs up. Fortunately, it seemed to be the only roundabout in the city!
I guess not everyone got the memo. About a year ago the rules in KZ changed from old soviet type where runabouts were treated like intersection (main/secondary road, turning traffic yield unless circular blue sign oisted) where in some situations traffic entering runabout had priority to western style where traffic on the circle has priority.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.
Thanks to everyone for your replies, there was no traffic backed up on either occasion, they were busy but flowing smoothly and had it only happened the once I would of just thought inattentive driver but twice within a few days and this sounds like a possibility.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
I'm going to guess that the German driver who cut you off in the UK was probably used to looking in the opposite direction (to the left, rather than to the right) to check and see if there was oncoming traffic already in the roundabout. There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.

Michael
As a german driving first time in London 35yrs ago I organized a pretty nice chaos on the streets. Switching my brain from german legal right side to drive on the left side overwelmed me at first. Also I was impressed by the courtesy and coolness of british drivers when I used a oneway street from the wrong side...

So I think that guy from the roundabout had maybe similar problems...

In Germany roundabout rules are shown by EU right way signs. Normally when you want to enter a roundabout, you have to wait and to give way to drivers who are allready in. If these common rule is not valid you will find a massive amount of traffic sights in and around the roundabout. (Germans traffic authorities love to put massive amounts of signs for everything near the street).

Zipper merge is a common rule in Germany when 2 lanes get to one. In that case you have the right to drive to the end of the ending lane and to zipper into the other lane. The driver on the other lane should give you by law the right of your way.
But please be carefull with this because of the german driver mentalty. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
__________________
Difficult Roads Always Lead To Beautiful Destinations
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
I guess not everyone got the memo. About a year ago the rules in KZ changed from old soviet type where runabouts were treated like intersection (main/secondary road, turning traffic yield unless circular blue sign oisted) where in some situations traffic entering runabout had priority to western style where traffic on the circle has priority.
This was a few years ago, admittedly. But with the standard of driving in central Asia I doubt many people have read the memo anyway. When I was last there, there was a thriving industry of people paying others to take the test for them
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
Zipper merge is a common rule in Germany when 2 lanes get to one. In that case you have the right to drive to the end of the ending lane and to zipper into the other lane. The driver on the other lane should give you by law the right of your way.
But please be carefull with this because of the german driver mentalty. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
That's a UK traffic rule as well, and you may see signs saying "Merge in turn". They are widely ignored, by drivers forming a long queue on the left while the right lane remains empty (we Brits love to queue!), or refusing to let others in at the merge point ("I was here first"). Worse still, the self appointed Queue Police who sit in the right lane with a long empty stretch ahead of them until they reach the merge point, ensuring the queue stretches out of hundreds of metres behind them.

Last edited by Tomkat; 18 Aug 2022 at 13:51.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
This was a few years ago, admittedly. But with the standard of driving in central Asia I doubt many people have read the memo anyway. When I was last there, there was a thriving industry of people paying others to take the test for them
You'd be surprised it vastly improved in 3 years comparing to pre-pandemic. They have cameras everywhere and people are getting tickets in mail not only for speeding or running red light but even for violating runabout rules. And they will take your license for overtaking on solid line. This was true for all cities in KZ and KG, UZ is behind but catching up.

I was glad cameras don't take my tag but then I had been stopped a few times to explain why am I riding without license plate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 18 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
That's a UK traffic rule as well, and you may see signs saying "Merge in turn". They are widely ignored, by drivers forming a long queue on the left while the right lane remains empty (we Brits love to queue!), or refusing to let others in at the merge point ("I was here first"). Worse still, the self appointed Queue Police who sit in the right lane with a long empty stretch ahead of them until the reach the merge point, ensuring the queue stretches out of hundreds of metres behind them.
Try riding in rush hour Batumi traffic
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19 Aug 2022
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
...please be careful with this because of the german driver mentality. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
I am very surprised that you say that.

As a Canadian who has travelled extensively through all European countries (250,000 km last 20 years), my experience has been that drivers in Germany are the safest, best-trained, and most rule-abiding in the world.

The Swiss are pretty good too, but scratch a Swiss and you find a German...

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19 Aug 2022
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
I am very surprised that you say that.

As a Canadian who has travelled extensively through all European countries (250,000 km last 20 years), my experience has been that drivers in Germany are the safest, best-trained, and most rule-abiding in the world.

The Swiss are pretty good too, but scratch a Swiss and you find a German...

Michael
I agree with what you say but I find they are also the most intolerant and unforgiving of the slightest trasgression on the part of others.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19 Aug 2022
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 3,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
Try riding in rush hour Batumi traffic
I tried that once. After a full day of glorious riding thru the mountains with only the vaguest idea where I was at, I descended at dusk, weary and hungry, into Batumi. Sheesh.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 4 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HU Germany Summer 2021 is September 16-19 2021 Susan Johnson HU Travellers Meetings - Europe 18 25 Jul 2021 20:31
New import rules from Germany? Sukhoi356 The HUBB PUB 5 18 Jan 2021 15:19
19th HU Germany meeting 28-31 Oct, 2017 Susan Johnson HU Travellers Meetings - Europe 8 17 Nov 2017 22:40
2015 - Heading east from Europe, add your itinerary / plans kim Travellers Seeking Travellers 190 5 Mar 2016 08:38
10th HU Germany Meeting Spring 2013 - Welcome!(17.5.-20.5.2013) El Aleman - Jens HU Travellers Meetings - Europe 93 10 Aug 2013 22:09

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:32.